6.5 Grendel vs 6.5x55

[Paul7]

yeah, thats about the same size as the scimitar oryx..

Wrong again, gemsbok are 30% bigger, why are you talking about scimitar oryx in a conversation on gemsbok? It's like talking about key deer in a mule deer conversation.

the size of a large mule deer,

Wrong again, a large gemsbok is twice the size of a large mule deer, and again, much tougher than anything in the deer family.

or a female elk.. and gee, so many people kill those with .30-30s, 243s, even knew someone in arizona who would only hunt them with a 44 mag marlin with people cleanly killing them at about 400 yards with 6.5x55

theres absolutely nothing to back up your statement of 6.5x55 being inadequate for a 500 pound ungulate

I'll go with the advice of my guide with 25 year's experience over an armchair internet expert who probably never heard of an oryx before this thread. You might master sentence capitalization and punctuation before you opine on appropriate gemsbok cartridges.

 

[justin22885]

Wrong again, gemsbok are 30% bigger, why are you talking about scimitar oryx in a conversation on gemsbok? It's like talking about key deer in a mule deer conversation.



Wrong again, a large gemsbok is twice the size of a large mule deer, and again, much tougher than anything in the deer family.



I'll go with the advice of my guide with 25 year's experience over an armchair internet expert who probably never heard of an oryx before this thread. You might master sentence capitalization and punctuation before you opine on appropriate gemsbok cartridges.

a male gemsbok is 400-530 pounds, male mule deer have been shot weighing 460lbs and elk cows average about 500-530 pounds, this is all documented data on the three species.. so no, gemsboks are not twice the size of a large mule deer, its marginally larger by about 15% and the weight averages are identical with cow elk.. male elk and even moose have been repeatedly and consistently taken with .30-30 which is on the top side of what a 7.62x39 can do

a 6.5 grendel delivers as much kinetic energy with the same weight bullet with a lower sectional density translating into even more penetration with a higher ballistic coefficient and flatter trajectory meaning more power downrange meaning it too would be able to reliably, and consistently kill elk, moose, mule deer, and your grossly overestimated gemsbok.. which means 6.5x55 which trumps all of these will have an even easier time at the same task

you have no arguments and absolutely no ground to say 6.5x55 is inadequate for a big game hunting cartridge as not only do the facts and numbers prove this to be entirely false, but people have and regularly hunt these game with this cartridge and report clean kills out to 400 yards... so instead of beating this dead horse for another page or two, im going to leave it at that

 

[Paul7]

a male gemsbok is 400-530 pounds,

Wrong again, gemsbok can go 660.

male mule deer have been shot weighing 460lbs and elk cows average about 500-530 pounds, this is all documented data on the three species.. so no, gemsboks are not twice the size of a large mule deer, its marginally larger by about 15% and the weight averages are identical with cow elk.. male elk and even moose have been repeatedly and consistently taken with .30-30 which is on the top side of what a 7.62x39 can do

They are much larger than mule deer, and are MUCH tougher than anything in the deer family, making your deer argument moot.

a 6.5 grendel delivers as much kinetic energy with the same weight bullet with a lower sectional density translating into even more penetration with a higher ballistic coefficient and flatter trajectory meaning more power downrange meaning it too would be able to reliably, and consistently kill elk, moose, mule deer, and your grossly overestimated gemsbok..

LOL, that you never heard until a few hours ago. Here's a link telling how tough they are and that the .300s or 7mm mag. are needed: http://www.safaribwana.com/ANIMALS/animpages/gemsbok.htm

Of course you know more than African professional hunters, right?

With gemsbok it isn't like simply poking a hole in an elk's lungs, you have to break through the shoulder which covers the vitals. They are placed much differently than elk/deer.

This is from a NM hunter:

"I killed my 38" bull At White Sands NM in 1995. I shot him at about 150 yards with .30-06 using 180 TBBC bullets. The first round broke his on shoulder and double lunged him. he went down at the shot then got up and tri-podded for about 200 yards before going down again . I had to shoot him twice more to kill him. They are TOUGH."

which means 6.5x55 which trumps all of these will have an even easier time at the same task

Not.

you have no arguments and absolutely no ground to say 6.5x55 is inadequate for a big game hunting cartridge

I didn't say that Sherlock, I said it is appropriate for game animals under 500 lbs., but not for oryx or brown bear, neither of which you've hunted.

as not only do the facts and numbers prove this to be entirely false, but people have and regularly hunt these game with this cartridge and report clean kills out to 400 yards... so instead of beating this dead horse for another page or two, im going to leave it at that

You obviously never heard of gemsbok before this thread, why do you imagine you know more than a guide who has hunted them for 25 years? :banghead:

 

[BigBore45]

So 83% of shooters who don't reload aren't shooting as often as they should? If you can shoot 2 MOA you probably aren't going to miss any animals (the OP was also about a hunting rifle), I can do that with 40 rounds a year. People go overboard on the endless quest for a one whole group. They were't shooting that 75+ years ago. Chuck Hawks said it well, http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm

I'm aware of the benefits of reloading, I just have no inclination to do so. There are risks involved, most KBs you hear about are from reloaded ammo. I'm a believer in never doing anything yourself you can get someone else to do better, for me, that includes ammo. YMMV The dozen animals I've taken with my 6.5x55 (all DRT) didn't seem to know I was using factory ammo.

And as far as the Swede being fit for anything in North America, do you want to shoot a bison with one? On another forum a guy was buffalo hunting and shot one three times with a .300 Win. Mag., it's reaction was to go back to eating grass.

Lol my father - In-law has Buffalo. I took out one with a broken leg with a .243 with a 85 grain vmax at 300+ yards
One shot drt.. And you say you don't need to practice shooting. Lol that guy should have.

 

[BigBore45]

Guide hunters want you to over gun for poor shot placement...... If you are going to shoot a endangered species in a fence I have no time to argue with you anyways. God will deal with your kind.

 

[Paul7]

Guide hunters want you to over gun for poor shot placement...... If you are going to shoot a endangered species in a fence I have no time to argue with you anyways. God will deal with your kind.

Huh? What fence? Son, gemsbok aren't endangered, the NM hunt began because they overpopulated the White Sands base.

 

[BigBore45]

Lol I'm done with this thread. Unless you have done testing on the 6.5 and had it fail you have no idea. I know a .243 will take elk at 600+ yards so I'm sure at 200 yards the 6.5 will take anything in north america without pause.

 

[Paul7]

Lol my father - In-law has Buffalo. I took out one with a broken leg with a .243 with a 85 grain vmax at 300+ yards

If it had a broken leg why didn't you get closer? That was lucky, and dumb. I don't see .243 on this list of recommended buffalo cartridges: http://www.chuckhawks.com/bison_cartridges.htm

One shot drt.. And you say you don't need to practice shooting.

Uh, I never said that. Cite or man up and retract.

Lol that guy should have.

Reread the post, he shot him three times in the vitals.

 

[Paul7]

You know why the guide wants you to overgun. So they can get a blood trail to follow cuz they are in and out of the animal.

Either that or they have way more experience than you. Chuck Hawks in my link above isn't a guide.

Most people that shoot animals on a guided hunt are nothing but rich spoiled idiots

And you know that how? You sound jealous. No shortage of idiots on this forum.

 

[justin22885]

he didnt shoot him three times in the vitals with a 300 win mag only for it to go back to eating, thats a load of bull

 

[Paul7]

Lol I'm done with this thread. Unless you have done testing on the 6.5 and had it fail you have no idea. I know a .243 will take elk at 600+ yards

And .22 have killed deer, so what? The exception doesn't prove the rule.

so I'm sure at 200 yards the 6.5 will take anything in north america without pause.

Really, have you hunted brown bear, buffalo, or oryx?

 

[Paul7]

he didnt shoot him three times in the vitals with a 300 win mag only for it to go back to eating, thats a load of bull

I don't care if you believe it or not.

 

[Olympus]

I think we've sufficiently beat this issue to death. Let's move on.

 

[Swampman]

Folks that talk about how much hotter CIP spec 6.5x55 "Swede" loads are than SAAMI loads need to be careful, because the 55,000 psi plus CIP level loads are NOT safe for the old Swedish 94/96 Mausers or Norwegian Krag rifles.

In fact, if you look at Vihtavuori's Edition 12 for Centerfire Cartridges, you'll see that they have two separate sections.

One is for the "6,5 x 55 Swedish Mauser".

And the other for the "6,5 x 55 SE / 6,5 x 55 SKAN", with the following caveat:
"WARNING: This reloading data is intended to use at modern rifles in good condition such as Sauer, Sako or Blaser chambered to 6,5 x 55 SKAN or 6,5 x 55 SE"

The only CIP pressure spec that I've found online for the 6.5x55 is clearly labeled and intended for the "SE" version:
www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en/tdcc_public


In any case, how did this thread devolve from a reasonably intelligent "6.5 Grendel vs 6.5x55" debate, to "hunting grizzly bears with a popgun"?

ETA: Sorry Olympus, but I hadn't seen your last post when I responded.

 

[BigBore45]

If it had a broken leg why didn't you get closer? That was lucky, and dumb. I don't see .243 on this list of recommended buffalo cartridges: http://www.chuckhawks.com/bison_cartridges.htm



Uh, I never said that. Cite or man up and retract.



Reread the post, he shot him three times in the vitals.

Lol you can get close to a pissed off Buffalo all you want, I'm staying away. And you can take a list of recommended cartridges and use it all you want. It's all bs.

 

[rayatphonix]

This has been rather amusing. I've learned a thing or three which makes the thread beneficial for me. Little to do with Swede vs Grendel though.

 

[grter]

These people are not taking into account special ninja loads and loading techniques that have enabled the shooter to transend the laws of physics.

Good shot placement is not necessary and insanely large powerful bullets can be made to perform just fine for squirrel at 10 yards as well as the smallest bullets lethal for the biggest game at 10,000 yards with these special ninja loads if matched properly to the chi of the shooter.

You see it's a very clear and simple case that my kung fu is better than yours and we will see about that.

These are accepted loads certified by the department of homeland stupidity and the brave men and women of the armed forces.

 

[Walkalong]

Well, this one has gone off the rails. Instead of wading through the insults, arguing, etc, let's just call it done. Maybe someone else will have the patience to prune the thread and keep it going, but until then.....