6.5 Grendel vs 6.5x55

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I hunt elk, either sex, every year with my Swede. But I want no part of my surviving Mr. Griz depending on one. This is territory where bears have learned that a shot may also mean dinner is served for them. It's not everyday mind you, but certainly not unknown, to have your ownership of the carcass disputed while field dressing. If your .416 Rigby is leaning against a tree 10 yards away, it might as well be on the moon. That's why I pack a truly big-bore revolver on my hip.

In my ignorant youth, I met a grizzly bad-breath-close. I was armed with a single shot 20 gauge shotgun at the time. My grouse hunting partner & I did not get mauled, but we were way lucky.

900F

 

[Paul7]

i think you will find that the better ballistic coefficients of the 6.5 bullet will start out performing your 06' at great range and neither have a problem up close. dont know about factory rounds but reloads are right on par with a .308 winchester and out do it starting at around 500 yards. so if a .308W will do it a 6.5 swed will too.... i would hunt anything in north America with either the 6.5 swed or .308 without hesitation.

A 180 gr. .308 will have 15% more energy. IMHO the Swede is sufficient for any game animal in North America under 500 lbs.

The 6.5x55 and .30-'06 are not the same thing.

 

[justin22885]

i think you guys GROSSLY overestimate whats needed to reliably take game on this continent... a 6.5x55 will easily kill any game in the US, reliably, and cleanly, a 308 will as well, heck, .308 has at lest as much kinetic energy with deeper penetration than the old "buffalo rifle" cartridges of the 19th century and 6.5x55 with modern handloads is about as powerful

it all comes down to shot placement.. granted your average hunter seems to have about 2 days worth of target practice a year right before opening season, the lesson here is any caliber we've mentioned is well sufficient to do the job, it only requires you to do yours by getting in sufficient trigger time, practicing more, and taking more responsible shots (as opposed to 800 yard brag shots), do these things and the 6.5 grendel will be sufficient, let alone 6.5x55

 

[Paul7]

i think you guys GROSSLY overestimate whats needed to reliably take game on this continent... a 6.5x55 will easily kill any game in the US, reliably, and cleanly, a 308 will as well, heck, .308 has at lest as much kinetic energy with deeper penetration than the old "buffalo rifle" cartridges of the 19th century and 6.5x55 with modern handloads is about as powerful

it all comes down to shot placement.. granted your average hunter seems to have about 2 days worth of target practice a year right before opening season, the lesson here is any caliber we've mentioned is well sufficient to do the job, it only requires you to do yours by getting in sufficient trigger time, practicing more, and taking more responsible shots (as opposed to 800 yard brag shots), do these things and the 6.5 grendel will be sufficient, let alone 6.5x55

For the majority who don't handload, it would be foolish to go after brown bear or oryx with a 6.5x55, and maybe even with handloads. It is a big stretch to say a 6.5x55 will reliably kill a 1,000 lb. + grizzly. I was reading a story on another forum where a guy shot one 10 times with his .303 and it was still coming at him.

Deer have been taken with a .22, but I don't recommend it.

 

[justin22885]

yeah yeah, and there are reports of people being shot multiple times with a .308 and surviving, even people getting nailed with .50BMG and surviving.. i serious doubt when a bear was bearing down on someone that their placement was all that stellar.. a 300 winmag wouldnt have fared any better

 

[Olympus]

These threads always seem to get derailed...

 

[BigBore45]

A 180 gr. .308 will have 15% more energy. IMHO the Swede is sufficient for any game animal in North America under 500 lbs.

The 6.5x55 and .30-'06 are not the same thing.

maybe you should re-read my post...........i was even low balling the swed.......... 15% on the 180 grain compared to what swed bullet weight and at what distance? yeah the muzzle on a 160 grain swed bullet, not at 100 yards, ballistic coefficients is what wins. any hunting bullet in the .308W has no where near the BC of the swed bullets.

max hodgdons loads with fastest velocity powder and hornady SST bullets it gets even better at around 140 grain bullets with the swed.

6.5 Swed 140 grain 2680 FPS 2400 ft/lbs at muzzle

6.5 Swed 140 grain 2492 FPS 2170 Ft/lbs at 100 yards

.308 W. 180 grain 2680 FPS 2870 ft/lbs at muzzle

.308 W. 180 grain 2496 FPS 2420 ft/lbs at 100 yards

30-06 180 gr. 2800 FPS 3100 ft/lbs at muzzle

30-06 180 gr. 2611 FPS 2725 ft/lbs at 100 yards

guess what at 370 yards the 6.5 swed is tied with the 30-06 and out performing it past that distance. once again B.C. on the bullet wins so yeah that backs up my first post.

and at 275 yards the swed is even with the .308 W and past that the swed wins. a game animal would never know the difference at 100 yards since it is only 500ish ft/lbs of energy difference between the 6.5 and '06 and at 200 yards about 300 ft/lbs and 300 190 ft/lbs and at 400 yards it goes into the negative for the '06


just for all you other people that have never even considered B.C. of bullets while hunting past pistol round hunting distances. yes a loaded up .45 colt or 44 mag can take deer sized game too 200 yards

P.S. i dont own a 6.5 swed but i respect it. i do own 2- .308s though

 

[Paul7]

yeah yeah, and there are reports of people being shot multiple times with a .308 and surviving, even people getting nailed with .50BMG and surviving.. i serious doubt when a bear was bearing down on someone that their placement was all that stellar.. a 300 winmag wouldnt have fared any better

Obviously the .300 WinMag would have more effect.

 

[Paul7]

maybe you should re-read my post..................... 15% on the 180 grain compared to what swed bullet weight and at what distance? yeah the muzzle on a 160 gain swed bullet, not at 100 yards, ballistic coefficients is what wins. any hunting bullet in the .308W has no where near the BC of the swed bullets.

max hodgdons loads with fastest velocity powder and both hornady SST bullets it gets even better at around 140 grain bullets with the swed.

Maybe you should re-read my post, I and most shooters don't reload.

6.5 Swed 160 grain 2650 FPS 2400 ft/lbs at muzzle

6.5 Swed 160 grain 2472 FPS 2170 Ft/lbs at 100 yards

.308 W. 180 grain 2680 FPS 2870 ft/lbs at muzzle

.308 W. 180 grain 2496 FPS 2420 ft/lbs at 100 yards

30-06 180 gr. 2800 FPS 3100 ft/lbs at muzzle

30-06 180 gr. 2611 FPS 2725 ft/lbs at 100 yards

guess what at 270 yards the 6.5 swed is tied with the 30-06 and out performing it past that distance. once again B.C. on the bullet wins so yeah that backs up my first post.

According to Hornady tables the 6.5x55 is at about 1,500 ft. lbs. at 300, the .30-'06 is over 2,000.

and at 175 yards the swed is even with the .308 W and past that the swed wins. a game animal would never know the difference at 100 yards.


just for all you other people that have never even considered B.C. of bullets while hunting past pistol hunting distances.

P.S. i dont own a 6.5 swed but i respect it. i do own 2- .308s though

I own a 6.5x55 and have taken a dozen animals with it, but I won't be taking it on my Oryx hunt next week. It doesn't mean I've never heard about BC as you imagine.

I'd be really surprised if a professional guide allowed someone to take a 6.5x55 on a grizzly hunt he was conducting.

 

[BigBore45]

Maybe you should re-read my post, I and most shooters don't reload.



According to Hornady tables the 6.5x55 is at about 1,500 ft. lbs. at 300, the .30-'06 is over 2,000.



I own a 6.5x55 and have taken a dozen animals with it, but I won't be taking it on my Oryx hunt next week. It doesn't mean I've never heard about BC as you imagine.

I'd be really surprised if a professional guide allowed someone to take a 6.5x55 on a grizzly hunt he was conducting.

As I said in my first post i did not know about factory loads as you are obviously using against my argument, which doesn't matter because the OP reloads.

Maybe you should take your 6.5 Swed it would surprise you if you hand loaded for it. Most people that shoot as often as you should to maintain a level of shooting that will make the 6.5 shine are reloading because of cost and accuracy gains.

 

[BigBore45]

These threads always seem to get derailed...

yes they do. if you plan on hunting with it just get the 6.5 Swed. it has a cool factor anyways from being so old and still being used.

 

[Paul7]

As I said in my first post i did not know about factory loads as you are obviously using against my argument, which doesn't matter because the OP reloads.

Maybe you should take your 6.5 Swed it would surprise you if you hand loaded for it. Most people that shoot as often as you should to maintain a level of shooting that will make the 6.5 shine are reloading because of cost.

So 83% of shooters who don't reload aren't shooting as often as they should? If you can shoot 2 MOA you probably aren't going to miss any animals (the OP was also about a hunting rifle), I can do that with 40 rounds a year. People go overboard on the endless quest for a one whole group. They were't shooting that 75+ years ago. Chuck Hawks said it well, http://www.chuckhawks.com/practical_accuracy.htm

I'm aware of the benefits of reloading, I just have no inclination to do so. There are risks involved, most KBs you hear about are from reloaded ammo. I'm a believer in never doing anything yourself you can get someone else to do better, for me, that includes ammo. YMMV The dozen animals I've taken with my 6.5x55 (all DRT) didn't seem to know I was using factory ammo.

And as far as the Swede being fit for anything in North America, do you want to shoot a bison with one? On another forum a guy was buffalo hunting and shot one three times with a .300 Win. Mag., it's reaction was to go back to eating grass.

 

[RPRNY]

I have no problem with people not wanting to reload, or grind their own coffee for that matter!

But you can't get assy about it in relation to the Swede. SAAMI spec loads are anemic and US manufacturers don't even use the correct head size in their brass. If you don't use CIP loaded ammo, or reload to its proper potential, you are running a Supercar on pump gas and discount tires. Your car, do as you like. But you can't suggest the car is less capable because of the restrictions you impose on it.

Having said that, no way I would attempt Mr Brown Bear with the Swede!

 

[justin22885]

Obviously the .300 WinMag would have more effect.

not of the placement wasnt there

 

[justin22885]

if you plan on hunting with it, get whichever one you want, either one will kill big game just fine

 

[Paul7]

not of the placement wasnt there

That is a given. The buffalo in my story was shot in the vitals three times.

 

[justin22885]

That is a given.

and if the placement WAS there, which i doubt someone panicking from a charging, moving bear would have had, the 6.5 would have stopped it as well

 

[Paul7]

I have no problem with people not wanting to reload, or grind their own coffee for that matter!

But you can't get assy about it in relation to the Swede. SAAMI spec loads are anemic and US manufacturers don't even use the correct head size in their brass. If you don't use CIP loaded ammo, or reload to its proper potential, you are running a Supercar on pump gas and discount tires. Your car, do as you like. But you can't suggest the car is less capable because of the restrictions you impose on it.

Having said that, no way I would attempt Mr Brown Bear with the Swede!

Having seen how the Swede performs with factory ammo, I'm sure it would do quite well with reloads, even though reloading doesn't interest me. How else would I have an excuse to buy a new gun? All 12 animals I've shot with factory loads have been DRT, and two have been literally disemboweled, something my last guide had never seen.

Hot reloads would seem to take away part of the appeal of the Swede, low recoil and muzzle blast.

 

[kwg020]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
I am really sold on the .260 Remington, and would like to get my next bolt gun in that caliber.

Thought about that, but brass is fairly high and dies are sort of limited. At least in my area.

You can make .260 from 308 or 7.62 brass with the right dies. I do it for .243.


kwg

 

[Paul7]

and if the placement WAS there, which i doubt someone panicking from a charging, moving bear would have had, the 6.5 would have stopped it as well

It's your life, I'd choose a bigger caliber.

 

[justin22885]

It's your life, I'd choose a bigger caliber.

and i'll choose not blaming a caliber for my poor shot placement

 

[justin22885]

the only oryx that isnt endangered or is REALLY small would be the scimitar oryx which averages under 400lbs for males, this puts them in the upper range of mule deer, about half the weight of male elk... youre telling me a 6.5x55 is insufficient for something the size of a mule deer?

 

[Paul7]

and i'll choose not blaming a caliber for my poor shot placement

Interesting, from this Alaska hunting forum, people who have actually hunted grizzlies (including guides) have a different opinion than armchair internet experts, they recommend .338, .375, .416, etc., funny nobody mentioned the 6.5x55.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/22340-perfect-Brown-bear-caliber-gun

Maybe they're not as good a shot as you?

 

[Paul7]

the only oryx that isnt endangered or is REALLY small would be the scimitar oryx which averages under 400lbs for males, this puts them in the upper range of mule deer, about half the weight of male elk... youre telling me a 6.5x55 is insufficient for something the size of a mule deer?

Actually, the scimitar is endangered in the wild. Yes, a 6.5x55 is plenty for mule deer, but that has nothing to do with what I'm hunting, gemsbok, or East African oryx. They can reach 660 pounds, are way tougher than anything in the deer family, and have been known to kill lions in Africa with their 38" horns. A hunter here in NM had one come after him after shooting it, luckily it died before reaching him.

From Wikipedia:

"The East African oryx (Oryx beisa) inhabits eastern Africa, and the closely related gemsbok (Oryx gazella) inhabits southern Africa. Neither is threatened, though the former is considered Near Threatened by the IUCN.[6] The gemsbok is monotypic, and the East African oryx has two subspecies; East African oryx "proper" (O. b. beisa) and the fringe-eared oryx (O. b. callotis). In the past, both were considered subspecies of the gemsbok.

Between 1969 and 1977, the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish intentionally released 93 gemsbok into its state's White Sands Missile Range, and that population is now estimated between 3,000 and 6,000 animals.[7] Within the state of New Mexico, oryxes are classified as "big game" and can be harvested with the proper license, but the quality of the hunt may be affected by military regulation of the missile range."

 

[justin22885]

Actually, the scimitar is endangered in the wild. Yes, a 6.5x55 is plenty for mule deer, but that has nothing to do with what I'm hunting, gemsbok, or East African oryx. They can reach 660 pounds, are way tougher than anything in the deer family, and have been known to kill lions in Africa with their 38" horns. A hunter here in NM had one come after him after shooting it, luckily it died before reaching him.

From Wikipedia:

"The East African oryx (Oryx beisa) inhabits eastern Africa, and the closely related gemsbok (Oryx gazella) inhabits southern Africa. Neither is threatened, though the former is considered Near Threatened by the IUCN.[6] The gemsbok is monotypic, and the East African oryx has two subspecies; East African oryx "proper" (O. b. beisa) and the fringe-eared oryx (O. b. callotis). In the past, both were considered subspecies of the gemsbok.

Between 1969 and 1977, the New Mexico Department of Game and Fish intentionally released 93 gemsbok into its state's White Sands Missile Range, and that population is now estimated between 3,000 and 6,000 animals.[7] Within the state of New Mexico, oryxes are classified as "big game" and can be harvested with the proper license, but the quality of the hunt may be affected by military regulation of the missile range."

yeah, thats about the same size as the scimitar oryx.. the size of a large mule deer, or a female elk.. and gee, so many people kill those with .30-30s, 243s, even knew someone in arizona who would only hunt them with a 44 mag marlin with people cleanly killing them at about 400 yards with 6.5x55

theres absolutely nothing to back up your statement of 6.5x55 being inadequate for a 500 pound ungulate