marksman13
Member
By “new” I meant current production. I’m not sure how to tell them apart. ASC had some issues a little while back, but I’ve got 8 ASC mags right now all 25 rounders and 10 rounders. Never had a hiccup at all.
6.8 SPC II
- Thread starter mshootnit
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By “new” I meant current production. I’m not sure how to tell them apart. ASC had some issues a little while back, but I’ve got 8 ASC mags right now all 25 rounders and 10 rounders. Never had a hiccup at all.
My 6.8 WC came with a 15 round PRI mag; I know that no one needs an AR 15 “weapon of war” for hunting but I also purchased a 10 round PRI mag to be legal for deer season - the PRI mags seem top notch (and oh btw, this Wilson Combat weapon of war has been hunting many times and has killed many deer, imagine that!).
For anyone interested,
I put together the 6.8 AR carbine, and test fired/ zeroed it. Everything so far runs great. Very happy. Ejection is to 4 o'clock and stacks brass in neat piles 8-10ft away. Hitting clays @200 yds is routine. The rifle was tested with Rem. UMC 115 gr. OTM as well as Hornady 110 gr. VMax.
Parts list:
Bison Armory barrel 18", mid gas.
Bison std. 6.8 bolt w/ chrome carrier
Midwest Ind. SP 10.5" handguard
YHM clamp style gas block.
Forged milspec T marked upper receiver
Aero lightweight mount
Leupold scope.
View media item 2603I would definitely recommend this setup to anyone desiring a light accurate hunting carbine!
I put together the 6.8 AR carbine, and test fired/ zeroed it. Everything so far runs great. Very happy. Ejection is to 4 o'clock and stacks brass in neat piles 8-10ft away. Hitting clays @200 yds is routine. The rifle was tested with Rem. UMC 115 gr. OTM as well as Hornady 110 gr. VMax.
Parts list:
Bison Armory barrel 18", mid gas.
Bison std. 6.8 bolt w/ chrome carrier
Midwest Ind. SP 10.5" handguard
YHM clamp style gas block.
Forged milspec T marked upper receiver
Aero lightweight mount
Leupold scope.
View media item 2603I would definitely recommend this setup to anyone desiring a light accurate hunting carbine!
Last edited:
marksman13
Member
Very nice. I almost bought a 224 Valkyrie Barrel from Bison today. Ended up buying back a 6.5 Grendel upper I sold to a friend. I’ll be building that Valkyrie after Christmas though. Makes too much sense to add it to the stable with all the 6.8 mags I’ve got laying around.
I picked up a used X39 case on the field today, thought about that necked to 6.5. Very close kin to 6.8 size, shape wise.
chickasaw_hunter
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- May 13, 2014
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- 150
I also had problems with a couple of ASC mags, I contacted ASC, talked to a nice young lady and about a week later I got new ones in the mail they are working just fine, with no problems. They sent me a return label the same day as my call.
The Federal 90 grain gold dots seem to be the rage right now. There is a good deal to had at Rocky Mtn Reloading on them buying bulk. I got 250 but haven't loaded any of them yet. I'm having good success with Federal American eagle varmit loads in 90 grains.
I tried a boat load of AR's in alternative calibers, but have come back to 6.8, I liked it the best. I've only used it on hogs but with great effect. I haven't tried it on deer, I hunt deer at altitude and use a much lighter rifle than an AR, hog hunting is at sea level and not too much walking thru the swamps. The 6.8 really shines in the AR, but I'm not sure, for me, I'd consider it in another type of action. But Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason and not all of us want or need the same flavor.
The Federal 90 grain gold dots seem to be the rage right now. There is a good deal to had at Rocky Mtn Reloading on them buying bulk. I got 250 but haven't loaded any of them yet. I'm having good success with Federal American eagle varmit loads in 90 grains.
I tried a boat load of AR's in alternative calibers, but have come back to 6.8, I liked it the best. I've only used it on hogs but with great effect. I haven't tried it on deer, I hunt deer at altitude and use a much lighter rifle than an AR, hog hunting is at sea level and not too much walking thru the swamps. The 6.8 really shines in the AR, but I'm not sure, for me, I'd consider it in another type of action. But Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors for a reason and not all of us want or need the same flavor.
303 hunter
Member
I have a 16” Bison mid gas barrel on my 6.8, and they are very accurate. You’ve got a fine build.
Varminterror
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- Jul 17, 2016
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- 14,913
Eh, both are 2.26” cartridges in similar calibers, but putting the two side by side, one is long and thinner, one is short and fatter. Grendel on the left, shorter, SPC on the right, longer.
Varminterror
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It’s your birthright to be snarky if you do choose, but it’s the differences in their shape, however subtle you might find them to be, which make the difference in their performance. The 6.8 case is too long, and ultimately too small in capacity, to load the longer, higher BC bullets possible in the Grendel. Even in a single shot or short action bolt gun where the 6.8 has room to run long, high BC pills, we’re stuck with limited case capacity, so we lose speed. The SPC is designed around a dated protocol, where shorter, lower BC, lower SD bullets at higher speeds were common. It’s not a bad round, and I have personally chosen the 6.8 over the 6.5 many times in the last ~15yrs, but there are certain limitations it has which don’t befall the Grendel.
So we can say a 300WSM kinda looks like a 338-06, and we can say the two, like the Grendel and the SPC, are often overlapping in capability, but the outer edges of the Venn diagram there are pretty significant, and wouldn’t exist if they weren’t significantly different in shape.
marksman13
Member
Where are we as a society that we can’t have a civil discussion among like-minded individuals? I get that we’ll have disagreements and differences of opinions, but sometimes I feel like we get so focused on being “right” that we disregard being polite. There’s just no sense in it.
From what I have read I will be sticking with 6.8 SPC. Notable advantages include better terminal performance as noted by US government testing, and by experienced hunters. 6.8 does not break bolts as often. The perceived advantage past 300 yds. applies only when a hunter would be so inclined to take a 400 yd shot which by far most are not. Here is some good reading on the subject:
From
AR Performance : 6.8 SPC II a Hunters Cartridge
https://www.ar15performance.com/
The 6.8 SPC is the fastest growing and #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.
The 6.8 is apx 100fp faster than the Grendel using the same weight bullet and same length barrel. Everyone is moving to the 6.8 after they figure out the 300AAC just doesn't kill like it was hyped up to. Swat and DEA teams are also changing over to the 6.8 after seeing the increased performance.
Blackstone Arms is our only authorized builder of uppers. If you have a question about others please call.
6.8 performance on hogs- VIDEO LINK
And more from AR Performance
What is my problem with the Grendel
There are a few guys that hang out on the Grendel forum that say you can shoot deer at 6-700yds. Well you could probably hit one but it sure wouldn't be something a responsible hunter would do. They always talk about BC and that goes along with the last thing about shooting deer at 600 yds. They say the 6.8 and Grendel are really close out to 300yds but then the Grendel really pulls away. Most people with any common sense or ethics will not shoot an animal past the distance the bullet stops expanding. So lets say the 123 gr bullets starts off at 2500 fps out of a 20" barrel, 2400 out of a 16" barrel. At what distance does that bullet drop below the expansion threshold? Hornadys BC figures are inflated. The true BC of the 123 SST or Amax is around .465. Using Hornady's info from their website the 123gr bullet drops below the 1800fps expansion threshold at apx 400 yds when fired from a 20" barrel. Apx 350yds when fired from a 16" barrel. They talk about how superior the SD(sectional density) of the 6.5 is. SD doesn't kill animals. The construction of the bullet is much more important, the expansion, velocity and overall terminal performance is what is important. SD is a worthless figure as soon as it contacts something and the shape is changed.
Suggest a cartridge for a specific use.
I sell a lot of different barrels and many different ones to the same people. When they call back and the first words are "holy ****" I know they are happy about the performance. choices in order. Hogs- usually several shot while running---30 Herrett, 6.8, Grendel in that order- Terminal performance is everything here, BC and SD mean little. Deer- one shot, one deer while not moving---6.8, 30 Herrett, Grendel. -the 6.8 has many more usable hunting bullet choices and most deer are shot under 300yds. Velocity must be fast enough to make the bullet expand at distance.
Thread post from an experienced Wyosmith:
I know several men and women in the Riverton, Shoshoni, Lander, Gillette, Casper and Green River areas of Wyoming who all love them.
I have personally killed 36 head of game with the 6.8. Among my friends in Wyoming, one in Montana, one in Illinois who hunts in Montana and Wyoming, and 2 in Nevada both of whome hunt also in Wyoming, Montana and New Mexico, we have a count (last count anyway) of 168 head killed so far..."
Here in Wyoming it is very much alive and doing well.
I also have made and owned two 6.5 Grendels. Good round. But having killed some game with it too, (9, which may not be a fare comparison to the 36 killed with the 6.8. I have seen about 15 other kills with 6.5Gs besides my own.)
I found I prefer the 6.8. I sold my 2 Grendels.
The 6.5G is a better long distance round and also does better in rifle length barrels, but the 6.8 gives the same velocities in the carbine length barrels with the same (or very close) bullet weights and the 6.8 puts the deer and antelope on the ground a bit faster. Not "worlds ahead," but I have seen it consistently. When the US Army did their test a few yeas ago they found the same thing.
For me I prefer the faster stops/kills I get with the 6.8 and the longer range of the 6.5 is not something that excited me much, because I own a 25-06, several 270s, two 308s, three 30-06s, a 300 H&H, an 8X57, a 9.3X62, a 9.3X74R and a 375H&H, all of which beat both shells at 300 yards and farther and beat them badly.
And from Gun Digest: Know your 6.8 Remington SPC
In 2003, Steve Holland and Cris Murray, individuals associated with special forces and marksmanship units, developed a special-purpose cartridge to improve combat effectiveness in short-barreled (16.5-inch) M4 carbines used for special operations
After extensive test firings into ordnance gel blocks, and on military firing ranges with the .30 Remington cases sized for .30, 7mm, .270, 6.5mm, and 6mm bullets, .270-caliber bullets delivered the best balance of velocity, accuracy and terminal performance...
From
AR Performance : 6.8 SPC II a Hunters Cartridge
https://www.ar15performance.com/
The 6.8 SPC is the fastest growing and #1 choice for hunting deer and hogs with an AR15.
The 6.8 is apx 100fp faster than the Grendel using the same weight bullet and same length barrel. Everyone is moving to the 6.8 after they figure out the 300AAC just doesn't kill like it was hyped up to. Swat and DEA teams are also changing over to the 6.8 after seeing the increased performance.
Blackstone Arms is our only authorized builder of uppers. If you have a question about others please call.
6.8 performance on hogs- VIDEO LINK
And more from AR Performance
What is my problem with the Grendel
There are a few guys that hang out on the Grendel forum that say you can shoot deer at 6-700yds. Well you could probably hit one but it sure wouldn't be something a responsible hunter would do. They always talk about BC and that goes along with the last thing about shooting deer at 600 yds. They say the 6.8 and Grendel are really close out to 300yds but then the Grendel really pulls away. Most people with any common sense or ethics will not shoot an animal past the distance the bullet stops expanding. So lets say the 123 gr bullets starts off at 2500 fps out of a 20" barrel, 2400 out of a 16" barrel. At what distance does that bullet drop below the expansion threshold? Hornadys BC figures are inflated. The true BC of the 123 SST or Amax is around .465. Using Hornady's info from their website the 123gr bullet drops below the 1800fps expansion threshold at apx 400 yds when fired from a 20" barrel. Apx 350yds when fired from a 16" barrel. They talk about how superior the SD(sectional density) of the 6.5 is. SD doesn't kill animals. The construction of the bullet is much more important, the expansion, velocity and overall terminal performance is what is important. SD is a worthless figure as soon as it contacts something and the shape is changed.
Suggest a cartridge for a specific use.
I sell a lot of different barrels and many different ones to the same people. When they call back and the first words are "holy ****" I know they are happy about the performance. choices in order. Hogs- usually several shot while running---30 Herrett, 6.8, Grendel in that order- Terminal performance is everything here, BC and SD mean little. Deer- one shot, one deer while not moving---6.8, 30 Herrett, Grendel. -the 6.8 has many more usable hunting bullet choices and most deer are shot under 300yds. Velocity must be fast enough to make the bullet expand at distance.
Thread post from an experienced Wyosmith:
I know several men and women in the Riverton, Shoshoni, Lander, Gillette, Casper and Green River areas of Wyoming who all love them.
I have personally killed 36 head of game with the 6.8. Among my friends in Wyoming, one in Montana, one in Illinois who hunts in Montana and Wyoming, and 2 in Nevada both of whome hunt also in Wyoming, Montana and New Mexico, we have a count (last count anyway) of 168 head killed so far..."
Here in Wyoming it is very much alive and doing well.
I also have made and owned two 6.5 Grendels. Good round. But having killed some game with it too, (9, which may not be a fare comparison to the 36 killed with the 6.8. I have seen about 15 other kills with 6.5Gs besides my own.)
I found I prefer the 6.8. I sold my 2 Grendels.
The 6.5G is a better long distance round and also does better in rifle length barrels, but the 6.8 gives the same velocities in the carbine length barrels with the same (or very close) bullet weights and the 6.8 puts the deer and antelope on the ground a bit faster. Not "worlds ahead," but I have seen it consistently. When the US Army did their test a few yeas ago they found the same thing.
For me I prefer the faster stops/kills I get with the 6.8 and the longer range of the 6.5 is not something that excited me much, because I own a 25-06, several 270s, two 308s, three 30-06s, a 300 H&H, an 8X57, a 9.3X62, a 9.3X74R and a 375H&H, all of which beat both shells at 300 yards and farther and beat them badly.
And from Gun Digest: Know your 6.8 Remington SPC
In 2003, Steve Holland and Cris Murray, individuals associated with special forces and marksmanship units, developed a special-purpose cartridge to improve combat effectiveness in short-barreled (16.5-inch) M4 carbines used for special operations
After extensive test firings into ordnance gel blocks, and on military firing ranges with the .30 Remington cases sized for .30, 7mm, .270, 6.5mm, and 6mm bullets, .270-caliber bullets delivered the best balance of velocity, accuracy and terminal performance...
Varminterror
Member
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- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,913
At this point, it’s largely a comparison akin to the 308 vs 7 Rem mag. Big differences in numbers, little difference in the field unless you tax them with extreme circumstances which highlight one or the other.
Years ago now, the 6.8 was better supported. But with the Creedmoor boom, the Grendel was lifted by rising tides, and now its components and ammo are more prevalent. That market support is a difference.
Shooting long range for plinking or competition, the shorter Grendel case offers access to longer, higher BC bullets. That ballistic performance is a difference.
For hunting at typical ranges, any difference between the two is little more than hair splitting.
Years ago now, the 6.8 was better supported. But with the Creedmoor boom, the Grendel was lifted by rising tides, and now its components and ammo are more prevalent. That market support is a difference.
Shooting long range for plinking or competition, the shorter Grendel case offers access to longer, higher BC bullets. That ballistic performance is a difference.
For hunting at typical ranges, any difference between the two is little more than hair splitting.
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