7-30 Waters in Winchester AE. Buy or pass?

[Newtosavage]

Been thinking about this off and on for the past 24 hours now...

My main concern is accuracy. Other than my beloved pre-64 Win 30-30, I don't own any rifles that are not accurate rifles - and my old 30-30 is more accurate than most (which is partly why I've had it since 1984). I just can't stomach the idea of getting that 7-30 Waters - as nice as it is - and ending up with yet another 2" rifle that I don't have a lot of confidence in. If I want nostalgia, nothing is going to beat my old 30-30 for that. If I knew it was a dead-nuts shooter, then maybe so. But at this point, I've pretty much talked myself out of it, so if any of you think you want it, send me a message and I'll tell you where it is. If you hurry, it might still be there.

 

[Slamfire]

Been thinking about this off and on for the past 24 hours now...

My main concern is accuracy. Other than my beloved pre-64 Win 30-30, I don't own any rifles that are not accurate rifles - and my old 30-30 is more accurate than most (which is partly why I've had it since 1984). I just can't stomach the idea of getting that 7-30 Waters - as nice as it is - and ending up with yet another 2" rifle that I don't have a lot of confidence in. If I want nostalgia, nothing is going to beat my old 30-30 for that. If I knew it was a dead-nuts shooter, then maybe so. But at this point, I've pretty much talked myself out of it, so if any of you think you want it, send me a message and I'll tell you where it is. If you hurry, it might still be there.

I don't own a Winchester lever action but I do own a 1990's Marlin 336. I shot around 500 rounds, only 170 grain bullets, and various powders, and found a 2 MOA load. At 100 yards, that load is about 3 MOA at 200 yards. Something you cannot see, and I had no idea was so bad, was the throating. It was not until after all that load development that I found the bullet had to jump 1/2" before it engaged the rifling! Never read about that in the in print magazines. I did talk to Marlin prior to 1999 when I had a Ballard barrel installed on a 1894 44 Mag, and the Customer Service reps I talked to were quite dismissive of the idea of accuracy. Their customer was someone who shot deer at 50 yards and probably never cleaned the barrel, or the action in their lifetime!

I have no idea of how Winchester constructed their M1894's, but if their construction was based on similar attitudes, then 3 to 4 MOA is all you are going to get out of one of their lever actions. I would, if offered a Win M1894, make sure it was tapped for a scope and I would look down the barrel, and I would use my throat gage to find how far the bullet has to jump. And if it has to jump a lot, I would sure walk away from that rifle.

 

[troy fairweather]

I've had quite a few lever guns that shot good, even some -moa just need to find ammo they like and have good sights.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've had quite a few lever guns that shot good, even some -moa just need to find ammo they like and have good sights.

My old 94 30-30 has been a 1 1/2" gun as long as I can remember. Someone had to have worked on the trigger at one time, or else it just has one of the best factory triggers I've ever used in a lever action. So I'm kinda spoiled with it. A couple years ago, I got a great deal on a late-model 94AE 30-30 with the tang safety in mint condition, and I had high hopes for it as my "everyday carry" rifle for whitetails. Unfortunately, the trigger in it was awful and I could do no better than 2" with it, despite hand loading several different bullets. So I sold it. Made about $50 on it so it wasn't a total loss.

 

[WestKentucky]

The Winchester AE .357 I had was dead nuts. The marlin 336 I have is accurate enough to pop soda cans at 100 very reliably. Are they tack drivers, not really, but that was never their purpose. Bolt actions are typically more accurate but slow, so the trade off is in time
Between shots and accuracy. In a piggy patch I would prefer to sling lead quickly than to carefully place my shots to minutia and only get the big one but still be fired by the other one. All guns have a fault of some kind, or an unfavorable trade off.

 

[dieselchief]

with thirty other responses my opinion is gonna sway your mind but here goes. get the gun, they shoot nice, accurate, fireform brass easy. r7 and 15 both work well, 3031 does too. btw it looks cool sitting next to a 375 win big bore too. dc

ps…..as for as I am concerned the best way to accurize a marlin 336> as follows, load 170 rem core lock, shoot gun, check target, less than two inches a hundred yards keep gun. (this part important) more than 3inches, sell gun. return to store buy another, repeat. lol. (mine shoots 1/2 inch groups at fifty, two inches at 100.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

The Winchester AE .357 I had was dead nuts. The marlin 336 I have is accurate enough to pop soda cans at 100 very reliably. Are they tack drivers, not really, but that was never their purpose. Bolt actions are typically more accurate but slow, so the trade off is in time
Between shots and accuracy. In a piggy patch I would prefer to sling lead quickly than to carefully place my shots to minutia and only get the big one but still be fired by the other one. All guns have a fault of some kind, or an unfavorable trade off.

As was my .44 AE.

Really surprised me that the rifle was quite worthy of mounting a scope for a piton cartridge. Fact is, If I didn't have other preferred guns or were interested in a white-tail gun I would certainly have kept it. As it was, I got something around a 60-70 premium over an equal .30-30 and hanging onto it made no sense in my case.

A 7-30 I'd lilkely have kept if only for the oddity.

Todd.

 

[Newtosavage]

Must be a sign that Hornady is releasing their new LeverEvolution 7-30 Waters factory ammo at precisely the same time I found this rifle. LOL Either that, or they held it back until now and just put it out when the announcement came out? Either way, that's destiny-like timing...

Hmmm.

 

[CraigC]

I'm still looking for one of those inaccurate leverguns everybody talks about.

 

[Newtosavage]

I've had very good to awful and everything in between. To me, the lack of user adjustability/tuning on a lever gun trigger is one of the biggest down sides to a lever guns. I will always be attracted to lever guns myself, but I do wish - as a rule - they had better triggers.

 

[troy fairweather]

I've had some very good triggers on lever guns, never had a bad one. The I grew up shooting surplus gun so different triggers don't bother me.

 

[earlthegoat2]

ps…..as for as I am concerned the best way to accurize a marlin 336> as follows, load 170 rem core lock, shoot gun, check target, less than two inches a hundred yards keep gun. (this part important) more than 3inches, sell gun. return to store buy another, repeat. lol. (mine shoots 1/2 inch groups at fifty, two inches at 100.

I'm still looking for one of those inaccurate leverguns everybody talks about.

My 1894SS is pretty bad but still good enough to take deer at 100. It used to shoot 300 gr XTPs into 4.5” at 100. It shot 240 XTPs, 240 AE HPs and Winchester 240 FPS even bigger than that.

So I recrowned it. The crown was uneven so I was expecting a mild improvement. So far I have only shot 300 XTPs and 240 AE HPs. The XTPs shoot much worse at about 6” and the AEs shoot much better at just over 3”. Net gain at least in my book.

Then I checked the headspace and it was .018”. I would think .005-.006” might be more appropriate so I will probably order a new locking block and reheadspace it. Then see what kind of accuracy I can get.

 

[CraigC]

To me, the lack of user adjustability/tuning on a lever gun trigger is one of the biggest down sides to a lever guns. I will always be attracted to lever guns myself, but I do wish - as a rule - they had better triggers.

Huh? Most guns don't have user-adjustable triggers. So what? IMHO, trigger quality off the bench only really becomes critical in benchrest. If I can shoot sub-1" groups at 50yds with my Uberti 1873, then anyone should be able to shoot to 90% of a rifle's ability with virtually any factory trigger. It's so bad it moves the hammer backwards before it lets off.

 

[Ks5shooter]

Have one for many years...don't hesitate. If you reload fireform your own brass and shoot it!!!

 

[Newtosavage]

You guys are making it tough!

 

[Newtosavage]

Huh?

I wouldn't expect you to understand. Carry on friend.

 

[Newtosavage]

Alright, here's a question for you all... I've gone to shooting all-copper for the past year and plan to continue. I know how good the Hornady FTX bullets are as I've used them in both my 30-30 and handloaded in my 7.62x39. They are great hunting bullets.

I currently own two 7mm-08 hunting rifles and have owned two .280 Rem's in the past, as well as a 7x57, so I'm a big fan of the 7mm. That is part of the appeal to me of the 7-30 Waters.

So what 7mm bullets could I use in the 7-30 Waters in a Winchester 94 other than the flat point Sierras and Hornady FTX? I am not aware of any 7mm copper offerings that would work in a tubular magazine, and unlike the 30 cal. Monoflex bullet, Hornady doesn't have a copper 7mm flex-tip bullet.

Would I be limited to loading one in the chamber and one in the tube if I wanted to hunt with copper bullets? Could I rob flex-tips from FTX's and put them in a Barnes TSX for example? Just spitballing here...

 

[Ks5shooter]

Just get it ...it doesn't eat anything and you will get your money back I you don't shoot it..But you will!!

 

[troy fairweather]

Get some tsx's and cut the tips off, hawk makes a nice 140 rn or fn if you go 140s.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

I'm still looking for one of those inaccurate leverguns everybody talks about.

I think the issue of experience of levers being *inacurate* beyond any other basic design isn't necessarily in the architecture as far as design and production but rather the high degree of use so many have had and poor attendance to proper cleaning, maintenance and cleaning methods.

The number of folk I know who used to spend ridiculous amounts of time at least once a year over-cleaning lever guns with no respect shown for the muzzle is a good example of how the guns can get a reputation.

Todd.

 

[Newtosavage]

Get some tsx's and cut the tips off, hawk makes a nice 140 rn or fn if you go 140s.

The TSX's don't have a tip. The TTSX's do. The TSX's have a pretty small tip, even though they are hollow points. Not sure they would be safe unless you mean cut MORE of the tip off to make them flatter. If that worked, it would be sweet since I use the 120 7mm TSX's in my Howa Alpine already.

 

[troy fairweather]

The TSX's don't have a tip. The TTSX's do. The TSX's have a pretty small tip, even though they are hollow points. Not sure they would be safe unless you mean cut MORE of the tip off to make them flatter. If that worked, it would be sweet since I use the 120 7mm TSX's in my Howa Alpine already.

Ya cut more of the tip off, just have to find a way to make them the same.

 

[Newtosavage]

Ya cut more of the tip off, just have to find a way to make them the same.

Actually, I just happened to have some 140 TTSX's laying around, and I pulled the blue tip out of one of them. That is a huge, wide hole in those. I wonder if it would be safe to just pull the tips on TTSX's and load them? Looks like most flat points that Sierra makes. It would be pretty simple to clip or sand flat the plastic tips in a 120 TTSX I would think.

 

[troy fairweather]

Actually, I just happened to have some 140 TTSX's laying around, and I pulled the blue tip out of one of them. That is a huge, wide hole in those. I wonder if it would be safe to just pull the tips on TTSX's and load them? Looks like most flat points that Sierra makes. It would be pretty simple to clip or sand flat the plastic tips in a 120 TTSX I would think.

You just have to have enough to cover the primer. Plus with the rimmed round the bullet til is never really dead center. I have just filed off the lead tip of sp bullets, the weight stays consistent and they shoot just as good. The tip has to be big enough tho the speers worked. But you want copper.

 

[LoonWulf]

I'm still looking for one of those inaccurate leverguns everybody talks about.

look in my fils cabinet...I'm pretty sure at least one of them still has enough rifling to count as a "rifle" tho I'm not positive. I couldn't keep a 6" group at 50yds with the one I cleaned up, but the family still kills stuff with them just fine lol.