7.62x39 Hunting Ammo

[someguy2800]

I believe in following SAAMI specs. But it's your face and hands. have at it. Call me what you want. I am proud of my accumulated wisdom and age. I am 72 years old, ride Harley with other Combat Vets some less than half my age and I beat them all in pistol competition. No excuses.

Your fingers and face would be safe and sound. These are published loads we are talking about, no hot rodding required.

 

[someguy2800]

I'll start this off by saying on deer size game I don't think there will be a lick of difference between a 30-30 and a 7.62x39, but on tougher animals where heavier bullets start to make more sense with more sectional density for penetration (123gr SST = .183 vs 170gr Nosler Partition = .256) can start really having an effect.

There is no doubt that 7.62x39 as compared to 30-30 in lighter weight bullets will close the gap on the two cartridges. However, in many if not all of these types of comparisons where the case with the greater volume starts exceeding the other is when heavier and heavier bullets are compared. I have a feeling if one gave as much emphasis on loading the 30-30 with 160gr-180gr bullets to peak performance (as is being done with handloads of the 7.62x39 in 123gr offerings to achieve 2,600fps) one would start to see where the 30-30 would take over on energies when shooting heavy bullets. The combustion chamber size starts to have an effect, especially when bullets start protruding down into the powder area. Much like when comparing something like the 280AI compared to the 7mmRM, in the 140gr class of bullets the difference between the two is negligible, start getting into the 175gr class of bullets and the spread starts widening between the two as the extra case capacity of the 7mmRM starts paying dividends.

This is the case with many comparisons where there is a case volume difference between the two cartridges in question.

• 30-30 holds about 45 grains of H2O
• 7.62x39 holds about 31-32 grains of H2O

30-30 Winchester

• Winchester 170gr Power Points = 2,200fps, 1,827 ft/lbs. (no barrel length specs)
• Hornady 160 gr. FTX = 2,400fps, 2,046 ft/lbs. (test barrel length 24")
• Federal Premium 170gr Nosler Partition = 2,200, 1,800 ft./lbs. (no barrel length specs)
  
• Handload 160-180gr (curious to know what one can achieve with a bolt action
• Handload 130gr bullets and I bet they will be close (albeit slightly faster) to the velocities listed below in the handloads for the 7.62x39

7.62x39

• Hornady 123gr SST = 2,350fps, 1,508ft/lbs. (no barrel length specs)
• Federal Fusion 123gr bonded = 2,350fps, 1,510ft/lbs. (no barrel length specs)
  
• Handload 123gr Hornady SST = 2,500 fps, 1,707 ft/lbs. (16" barrel)

And all of this coming from a person who really likes the 7.62x39, I think it's a very underrated cartridge to be sure. The reputation the x39 was built on provides a false narrative as to what can be achieved, it really has received and lives under a shadow of performance from loose tolerance rifles.

One thing I want to add is that the available factory ammo for the 7.62x39 is generally pretty anemic, especially when compared to what you can do with CFE BLK and reloader 7. Factory 30-30 ammo also tends to be pretty optimistic with the velocities printed on the box and of course the terrible ballistic coefficients of all but the factory leverevolution loads means it sheds velocity FAST!

 

[d2wing]

Your fingers and face would be safe and sound. These are published loads we are talking about, no hot rodding required.

In that case I apologize. I was wrong. I did not realize that that round could be loaded that hot. I was thinking of factory loads. Carry on.

 

[Newtosavage]

I believe in following SAAMI specs. But it's your face and hands. have at it. Call me what you want. I am proud of my accumulated wisdom and age. I am 72 years old, ride Harley with other Combat Vets some less than half my age and I beat them all in pistol competition. No excuses.

First of all - thank you for your service.

That said, I also have a "little" experience of my own.

I have no idea what you're suggesting with your "SAAMI specs" comment but I can assure you my hand loads were all within published specs. Why you would suggest I would disregard the safety of myself and others to pursue a hot load in a 7.62x39 is beyond me other than you are concerned about your facts. I would suggest that you are still not too old to learn something new, unless you yourself decide otherwise.

Physics don't care about the head stamp. I was trying to be fair by comparing the traditional 30-30 170-grain load with a bullet that is also used in the 30-30. Since the 7.62x39 has the advantage of being able to use high BC spitzers, I don't have to be so fair to our old beloved 30-30.

And before you go completely old school on me, my first hunting rifle (that I still own) is a pre-64 Wincheter 94 30-30 that I've killed more critters with than all other rifles I've used combined. I've killed over 400 feral pigs with that old Winchester. So I have a fair amount of experience slinging lead with a 30-30.

 

[Newtosavage]

Ballistic coefficient of a typical flat-nose 170-grain 30-30 bullet is 0.186. Ballistic coefficient of a 150-grain Nosler ballistic tip that can be loaded in the 7.62x39 is 0.435.

Since we don't often shoot game at the muzzle, terminal ballistics downrange matter.

The 170-grain 30-30 factory load out of the typical 20-inch barrel will be traveling around 2300 fps. That means it will dip below 1000 ft. lbs. around 160 yards and by 200 yards, it's carrying only 866 ft. lbs. at just over 1500 fps.

If you load a 150 grain NBT in the 7.62x39 and use published loads of CFE BLK out of a 20" bolt action, you'll have a load that's traveling 2200 fps. with 1000 ft. lbs. beyond 250 yards, still traveling over 1750 fps.

Now, I've shot some 154 Tula soft points over a chrono and I can assure you they are going faster than 2200 fps. I've clocked them closer to 2300.

If anything, the venerable 30-30 has some catching up to do with today's modern 7.62x39 loads and rifles. These are simple facts. No emotion. Nothing to prove. Just facts.

I still love my old 30-30 for the simple reason that it's a great rifle in one of the best designs of all time manufactured to legendary standards and it kills better than it has a right to. But if push came to shove and I had to go hunt meat to survive, my Howa mini 7.62x39 and a pocket full of Hornady 123 SST's are heading out the door with me. Period.

 

[Newtosavage]

Not to pile on, but can we all agree that in terms of accuracy, a 7.62x39 in a modern platform (bolt action or AR) is by FAR, more accurate than anything you can get a 30-30 in?

So, then it all becomes relative because when you're shooting a platform with limited accuracy potential (lever action 30-30), it really doesn't matter what the round can do beyond 150 yards. Meanwhile, when you have a platform + caliber combo capable of delivering sub-moa results to at least 300 yards, terminal ballistics at 250+ now become relevant.

The 30-30 is a 150-yard gun. A modern 7.62x39 is a 200+ yard gun. Do the math. Look at the facts. Prove me wrong if you want, but please support your argument with facts.

 

[troy fairweather]

I had a first year 336 in 3030 I shot many 1/2 moa 5 shot groups. It loved 150 winchester.

 

[someguy2800]

Not to pile on, but can we all agree that in terms of accuracy, a 7.62x39 in a modern platform (bolt action or AR) is by FAR, more accurate than anything you can get a 30-30 in?

So, then it all becomes relative because when you're shooting a platform with limited accuracy potential (lever action 30-30), it really doesn't matter what the round can do beyond 150 yards. Meanwhile, when you have a platform + caliber combo capable of delivering sub-moa results to at least 300 yards, terminal ballistics at 250+ now become relevant.

The 30-30 is a 150-yard gun. A modern 7.62x39 is a 200+ yard gun. Do the math. Look at the facts. Prove me wrong if you want, but please support your argument with facts.

I wouldn’t quite agree with that just because there are non lever action 30-30’s such as the the henry single shot, Ruger #3, and the old savage 340. It has also always been a popular chambering in Thompson Center’s. I couldn’t quite say that they would be more accurate than a bolt action 7.62x39 but the TC’s are no big deal to shoot under an inch and you can load any bullet you desire.

 

[Newtosavage]

Okay, there are unicorn 30-30's out there, but honestly, for the average Joe, it's hard to find a 30-30 that's a true 200 yard gun for hunting based on accuracy alone. By comparison, a 200-yard hunting shot with my bolt-action 7.62x39 is something I would consider rather routine.

 

[Robert]

We appear to have wandered far off the original topic.