7.62x39 POI brass vs steel?

[valnar]

The average weight of a 7.62x39 bullet is about 123 grain, give or take 1-2. All things being equal, I imagine the POI of any good round is close to the same. However, I'm curious about good American brass-cased Boxer primed vs Russian steel-based Berdan primed ammo. Is there a significant difference in POI? Meaning, if I shoot brass cased ammo to zero my rifle, will it be close to the cheap Russian stuff, or way off?

1) I realize Russian ammo (Bear, Barnaul, Tula) is not as precise in general, so I'm talking about the aggregate at about 25-50 yards
2) Yes, I also realize I can test this myself, but that's easier said than done. My local indoor range won't allow steel-cased ammo for me to compare, and this is where I want to zero the rifle. 10 minute drive vs 1.2 hour to the nearest outdoor (cold in winter) range.

I'm just looking for other people's experiences. If the answer is "they're way off", then I'll simply wait until I can get to the outdoor range, since my only reason for buying brass ammo is just for this purpose. I have mostly Russian surplus.

 

[Riomouse911]

I don’t shoot too much brass cased 7.62x39 because I bought my Mini 30 and AR for higher volume plinking fun, but I don’t personally recall much of a POI change at closer ranges between the two (I will admit that I haven’t specifically looked for it, though.) But, I do have a question.

Are you looking to hunt with your rifle or just plink around with it like I do?

The reason I ask is if it’s just a range toy like my guns, you probably won’t get too much of a deviation in POI between brass and steel cased ammo at 50-100 yards. (Especially if bullet weights, style and velocities are similar between the two.) Every change in cartridge brand or style will shoot and impact differently no matter the manufacturer, and this is magnified as distances increase, but you should be ok on plates and paper within those distances with either one.

If you are looking to shoot for recorded scores or go out and hunt with it, precision is much more important. In cases like these by all means your rifle should be sighted in with the actual ammo you intend to use, at the distance(s) you expect to encounter game in the field or where targets are placed.

Stay safe.

 

[valnar]

The answer is mostly plinking, but any reason is still one where you want to be as accurate as possible. Thanks for the reply. I may end up doing both, but it'll have to be at different times.

 

[troy fairweather]

I don't see much change with my cz, maybe a inch or so all 100. Last year I was shooting at 300, was 2" high at 100 and hit the ~10 inch plate on the first shot with steel, next mag was some ppu and was still on the plate. Shot some Winchester and that was hitting lower but that's expected with USA made ammo.

 

[gotboostvr]

If you zero with one, the other should still be on the paper plate at least.

 

[troy fairweather]

Steel case stuff can be very accurate if shot in guns with proper chambers, I've shot many sub moa 5 shot groups with my cz using wolf and tula.

 

[TonyAngel]

I have a Ruger American Ranch that shoots steel cased ammo with MOAish accuracy. Honestly, I'm finding myself hard pressed to find brass cased ammo that shoots as well.

In answer to your question, most will shoot very close to your sight in, but velocities vary so you may have to adjust or hold under/over.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I shot a total of 10 steel cased rounds out of one of my AR’s in that caliber and had to pound case #10 Wolf ammo out of the chamber with a rod. Haven’t shot steel out of any of my AR’s since. The SKS and AK get the steel stuff, AR’s get brass surplus or my brass cased reloads only.

As for POI, I can’t add anything to the conversation above.

 

[troy fairweather]

I shot a total of 10 steel cased rounds out of one of my AR’s in that caliber and had to pound case #10 Wolf ammo out of the chamber with a rod. Haven’t shot steel out of any of my AR’s since. The SKS and AK get the steel stuff, AR’s get brass surplus or my brass cased reloads only.

As for POI, I can’t add anything to the conversation above.

that's because your ar chamber is saami spec the ak/sks is cip spec chamber.

 

[someguy2800]

Not even a half moa difference in POI going from wolf to my handloaded ammo in my 7.62x39 AR15. Wolf 124 gr military classic hp shoots right around MOA. My handloads are well under.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

In my SKS - Yugo brass cased, copper jacketed 7.62x39 shoots significantly different than steel cased, steel jacketed Russian and Chinese ammo.

Same with Winchester 7.62x39 ball.

You can't assume the same bullet weight will hit in the same place.

 

[valnar]

That’s what I was afraid of. Ok

 

[22250Rem]

Back when I was playing around with a lot of 7.62x39 in two SKS's I ran a bunch of it over the chronograph. Mostly steel case Russian & Chinese but also did some brass cased handloads with soft points when I considered deer hunting with an SKS & a 5 round magazine. Decided to pass on deer hunting with an SKS but it seems that all that steel case ammo had about the same velocity. I'm guessing regardless of where it was made, it's made to a certain standard, like our SAAMI standards. I forgot what the international version of SAAMI is called but they must have adhered to their rules. Basically, it seems that as long as those 122-124 gr. bullets are within that velocity range there is no real difference in POI. My handloads were in that range also with no POI change. 100 yards is the furthest any of it ever got shot, so that's the extent of my experience with it in two SKS's. Any POI change would probably be just velocity differences assuming the same bullet weights.

 

[troy fairweather]

Back when I was playing around with a lot of 7.62x39 in two SKS's I ran a bunch of it over the chronograph. Mostly steel case Russian & Chinese but also did some brass cased handloads with soft points when I considered deer hunting with an SKS & a 5 round magazine. Decided to pass on deer hunting with an SKS but it seems that all that steel case ammo had about the same velocity. I'm guessing regardless of where it was made, it's made to a certain standard, like our SAAMI standards. I forgot what the international version of SAAMI is called but they must have adhered to their rules. Basically, it seems that as long as those 122-124 gr. bullets are within that velocity range there is no real difference in POI. My handloads were in that range also with no POI change. 100 yards is the furthest any of it ever got shot, so that's the extent of my experience with it in two SKS's. Any POI change would probably be just velocity differences assuming the same bullet weights.

cip

 

[TonyAngel]

I shot a total of 10 steel cased rounds out of one of my AR’s in that caliber and had to pound case #10 Wolf ammo out of the chamber with a rod. Haven’t shot steel out of any of my AR’s since. The SKS and AK get the steel stuff, AR’s get brass surplus or my brass cased reloads only.

As for POI, I can’t add anything to the conversation above.

Steel doesn't contract as quickly as brass does. Try slowing down your action to give it a bit more time. Heavier buffer, adjustable gas block.

My ARs in 7.62 and 5.56 eat steel by the gobs and never get a stuck case.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Steel doesn't contract as quickly as brass does. Try slowing down your action to give it a bit more time. Heavier buffer, adjustable gas block.

Nah, I‘d rather keep things as they are and reload gobs of brass 7.62x39’s for my AR’s and leave the commie stuff for the AK/SKS

 

[Show Me]

I don’t shoot too much brass cased 7.62x39 because I bought my Mini 30 and AR for higher volume plinking fun, but I don’t personally recall much of a POI change at closer ranges between the two (I will admit that I haven’t specifically looked for it, though.) But, I do have a question.

Are you looking to hunt with your rifle or just plink around with it like I do?

The reason I ask is if it’s just a range toy like my guns, you probably won’t get too much of a deviation in POI between brass and steel cased ammo at 50-100 yards. (Especially if bullet weights, style and velocities are similar between the two.) Every change in cartridge brand or style will shoot and impact differently no matter the manufacturer, and this is magnified as distances increase, but you should be ok on plates and paper within those distances with either one.

If you are looking to shoot for recorded scores or go out and hunt with it, precision is much more important. In cases like these by all means your rifle should be sighted in with the actual ammo you intend to use, at the distance(s) you expect to encounter game in the field or where targets are placed.

Stay safe.

I love the sentence with high volume plinking fun in it. That fits my mini thirty perfectly.

 

[Beck]

In my SKS - Yugo brass cased, copper jacketed 7.62x39 shoots significantly different than steel cased, steel jacketed Russian and Chinese ammo.

Same with Winchester 7.62x39 ball.

You can't assume the same bullet weight will hit in the same place.

^^^ This