7mm Rem Mag vs 270 Win

[SwampWolf]

my friend shot a buck with a 7mm rem and it blew the intestines out and they wrapped around the body of the deer.

I can well see this happening. After all, if a 9mm pistol will blow the lungs clear out of a human being, I can only imagine what something like a 7mm Magnum would do.

 

[Jim Watson]

Years ago, when Winchester was bringing back the claw extractor, the NRA got a Model 70 in 7mm Remington Magnum for some odd reason.
Two of the five loads they shot were below .30-06 velocity and the other three were not a lot faster.
Yeah, yeah, ballistic coefficient and moose at a mile, but still...

 

[.45Coltguy]

Started off here with discussions of 7mm RM vs .270. Went off the rails rather fast with the lever action talk.
Mods, I'll end my part with this post. I know where I stand. Carry on folks.

 

[Mn Fats]

It’s also been true that the popularity of the 30-30 has faded and continues fading, “for many years.”

Your concerned thier not making enough money? Or? Sales dipping doesn't mean these rounds are going anywhere anytime soon.

Your point is what?

The 30-06 will live long after I'm dead, that's all that matters. Along with the 30-30 that a few gun writers predicted would die out.

 

[BushMaster-15]

I don't know how many of you have visited LGS's as of late but I can tell you without hesitation there are far less Rifles New or Used for sale .
Awhile back I visited no less than #6 shops in one day in a 70 mile radius . #4 of the Owners and #1 Sales person told me the near exact same thing . Big Box shops on line sales had really cut into LGS's as two are on the brink of closing . One with over a 100 years history .

NO powder ,NO primers = NO reloaders !. Orders back ordered for nearly a year ,NO Rifles ; Remember when Dad took you down after graduation and you got that Model 70 Winchester you'd dreamed of owning or a really Sweet Mauser Sporter ?.

Well now days Dad isn't forking out $3K on a .243 or 6mm Dasher he's never even heard of . Extremely limited used Rifles commanding premium money for near obsolete cartridges ( 30/30 .303 Brit 30-06 Ect. ) .
The Point they drove home in our conversations was ; CAN'T get what we order and prices are beyond reach of working class hunting persons and there's NO Used Inventory .So accessories are keeping the lights on but they can't hire sales persons . So the owner's are Limping along ,short staffed NO product and smithing is at and all time low !. I believe the handwriting is on the wall ,it's simply a matter of time . It will be one of the saddest days in our history if WE allow it to happen

 

[Mn Fats]

I'm having a hard time understanding posters who say the 30-06 is fading out. So then is every cartridge. Unfortunately, it seems there are comparatively less hunters vs 50 years back.

If one is to say the 30-06 is fading out, that simply means shooting in general is fading out. Like I posted before, there are tons of milsurp and old hunting rifles chambered in 30-06 out there. Not everyone needs a Creed. Last year I took a Whitetail with my 30-30 lever.

So again, what's the point in saying that? Considering these rounds aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Varminterror]

I'm having a hard time understanding posters who say the 30-06 is fading out. So then is every cartridge. Unfortunately, it seems there are comparatively less hunters vs 50 years back.

Every HUNTING cartridge is fading in popularity, because hunting has been on the decline for a couple of generations.

But sport shooting, pre-covid, was at record highs. Ammo sales and firearm sales even DURING covid have been at record highs. But they’re recreational shooters, not hunters. It’s actually been an interesting trend to watch - I want to say it was circa 2010 that reports went out that the “average” NICS check being ran was on a buyer’s first firearm purchase ever, whereas in generations prior, the average firearm was purchased by someone which already owned a firearm. More women and minorities, and fewer and fewer folks who had dad or grandpa buying them any kind of gun for graduation or birthdays. So gun sales and shooting for recreation are soaring, but folks aren’t doing it with old rifles or cartridges which have horsepower typically only dictated for hunting.

 

[Mn Fats]

Every HUNTING cartridge is fading in popularity, because hunting has been on the decline for a couple of generations.

Yes.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Every HUNTING cartridge is fading in popularity, because hunting has been on the decline for a couple of generations.

But sport shooting, pre-covid, was at record highs. Ammo sales and firearm sales even DURING covid have been at record highs. But they’re recreational shooters, not hunters. It’s actually been an interesting trend to watch - I want to say it was circa 2010 that reports went out that the “average” NICS check being ran was on a buyer’s first firearm purchase ever, whereas in generations prior, the average firearm was purchased by someone which already owned a firearm. More women and minorities, and fewer and fewer folks who had dad or grandpa buying them any kind of gun for graduation or birthdays. So gun sales and shooting for recreation are soaring, but folks aren’t doing it with old rifles or cartridges which have horsepower typically only dictated for hunting.

Damn! I agree with this. How about that!?

 

[WisBorn]

At the same time some nontraditional deer cartridges are gaining popularity with hunting as black rifles become more popular.

 

[someguy2800]

I don't remember which ones it was, but I have seen at least a couple hunting type bolt actions on the market that have actually dropped 30-06 as a chambering. Ammo sales are not necessarily indicative of what people are buying for rifles since people tend to hunt with the same rifles for many decades. For example when I was a kid in the late 90's I remember there was always a spot on the shelf for 30-40 krag ammo, even though there hadn't been a rifle made in that chambering in any significant qty in almost a hundred years. Now just 20 or 30 years later 30-40 krag ammo is virtually nonexistent because nearly everyone that was hunting with a krag is now dead and the rifle sits in a closet or their kids gunsafe. 30-06 and 30-30 will be a strong sellers for ammunition for many years to come because there are just so many rifles out there, but they are not even close to being in the top 10 for sales of new rifles and their users are dying faster than they are being replaced. Just as even older cartridges that already died off before, they will continue to decline in popularity while new cartridges take their slice of the pie.

Maybe someday I'll be showing off my old antiquated Tikka's and AR15's to my great grandkids and showing them how we used to reload the old brass case ammo and shoot with glass scopes.

 

[Peakbagger46]

Every HUNTING cartridge is fading in popularity, because hunting has been on the decline for a couple of generations.

But sport shooting, pre-covid, was at record highs. Ammo sales and firearm sales even DURING covid have been at record highs. But they’re recreational shooters, not hunters. It’s actually been an interesting trend to watch - I want to say it was circa 2010 that reports went out that the “average” NICS check being ran was on a buyer’s first firearm purchase ever, whereas in generations prior, the average firearm was purchased by someone which already owned a firearm. More women and minorities, and fewer and fewer folks who had dad or grandpa buying them any kind of gun for graduation or birthdays. So gun sales and shooting for recreation are soaring, but folks aren’t doing it with old rifles or cartridges which have horsepower typically only dictated for hunting.

Please let all the people (especially those from the SE and Midwest) who hunt Colorado over the counter elk know hunting is outdated and not cool. So much pressure around my neck of the woods they won’t even bugle during the rut (bow season none the less).

 

[WisBorn]

Trying to get back on track with the OP.

I went to Midway USA to see what they offered in 7mm (.284) bullets and 270 (.277) bullets.
.284 = 102
.277 = 81

Ammo offered
7rm = 68
270 win = 68
This was what they offered not what was available. As DM mentioned the main thing is to be able to buy components or ammo that gives you what you want from the firearm.

 

[KansasTrapper77]

Neither of these cartridges are my favorite but off the cuff for primarily whitetail with an elk mixed in every so often I personally would go .270.

If you check Hornady’s website and compare middle weight .270 vs middle weight 7RM the .270 was actually going 100 fps faster but the 7RM had about 250+ more ft/lb energy.

I personally don’t think the added recoil and muzzle blast is worth the extra muzzle energy. I also kinda think the 7RM is a bit of a gas guzzler on powder. But thats just me.

And I guess there are some serious Jack O’Connor dislikers on this thread but .270 to me is the quintessential fine American Walnut with an American made Weaver scope. To me its the gun that gets handed down from father to son, even though there are faster twists, modern cartridges, and fancier scopes. The .270 is your daddy’s rifle that has deep heritage.

And I say this without ever taking a deer with a .270 but I’ve seen it done by my father time and time again. While my brother keeps slinging that 7RM deafening everyone around him .

Honestly I’d find a rifle that feels good on the shoulder and take either cartridge. A well fit gun is worth more than arguing the cartridge.

 

[rdnktrkr]

As far as recoil, this year while shooting with my grandson (11yr old) I noticed a definite flinch with his Savage 243 and not one with his mini 14 so I had a friend thread the barrel and bought a cheap $20 muzzle brake from Ebay, now there is less recoil on the 243 than anything else, now the questions about determining which cartridge,
1: do you reload?
2: if so are components available? 3:have you looked at your LGS at ammo availability and the price difference? (I've known people that left their hunting ammo at home)

My theory about the 30-30 and 30-06 loosing their top spots with ammo sales could be a target shooter purchases hundreds of rounds each time they go shooting and a hunter purchases 20rnds a year if that, I purchased a Howa 1500 30-06 and it still had 12rnds from the original box of bullets it was purchased with

 

[someguy2800]

As far as recoil, this year while shooting with my grandson (11yr old) I noticed a definite flinch with his Savage 243 and not one with his mini 14 so I had a friend thread the barrel and bought a cheap $20 muzzle brake from Ebay, now there is less recoil on the 243 than anything else, now the questions about determining which cartridge,
1: do you reload?
2: if so are components available? 3:have you looked at your LGS at ammo availability and the price difference? (I've known people that left their hunting ammo at home)

My theory about the 30-30 and 30-06 loosing their top spots with ammo sales could be a target shooter purchases hundreds of rounds each time they go shooting and a hunter purchases 20rnds a year if that, I purchased a Howa 1500 30-06 and it still had 12rnds from the original box of bullets it was purchased with

Please make sure he wears hearing protection if he is going hunting with the 243 or take the brake off beforehand. My father in law had a brake put on his 270. He shot 5 deer in one morning and was complaining about not being able to hear for the rest of the season. He went to an audiologist a couple months later and they said he had 70% hearing loss in one ear and 30% in the other. He sold the rifle after that.

 

[Scout21]

Trying to get back on track with the OP.

I went to Midway USA to see what they offered in 7mm (.284) bullets and 270 (.277) bullets.
.284 = 102
.277 = 81

Ammo offered
7rm = 68
270 win = 68
This was what they offered not what was available. As DM mentioned the main thing is to be able to buy components or ammo that gives you what you want from the firearm.

I'm curious how diverse the selection was. Just as an example, if most of the bullets offered were match bullets it would leave a hunter with little to choose from. I'm sure the majority are hunting style bullets, though, considering the cartridges and diameters we're discussing.

 

[Scout21]

Please make sure he wears hearing protection if he is going hunting with the 243 or take the brake off beforehand. My father in law had a brake put on his 270. He shot 5 deer in one morning and was complaining about not being able to hear for the rest of the season. He went to an audiologist a couple months later and they said he had 70% hearing loss in one ear and 30% in the other. He sold the rifle after that.

To add on to what someguy said, I'd recommend at least trying to put on ear pro before every shot. I know it's not always possible, but if you stage it just right you can put them on pretty dang quickly.

I've been able to do it with every deer I've shot at with the exception of the first two. The first was a hit with a .308 in a box blind, which wasn't fun. The second was a miss with a .308, which was promptly followed up with a 7 Mag going off a couple feet above my right ear, which was REALLY not fun. I find ear muffs are by far faster than plugs to put on and require less movement to do so.

 

[JShirley]

You can have options that let you hear normally, but give over 20 db protection for as little as $20. I keep a pair of these in my car.

John

 

[Laphroaig]

And I guess there are some serious Jack O’Connor dislikers on this thread

I think that most of the more vocal haters weren't yet born, let alone old enough to read when Jack retired from Outdoor Life in 1972. He hunted with a .270 and wrote articles that focused on the hunt, not promoting products for sale by the magazine advertisers. As an college English professor he had the ability to spin interesting yarns and did so. They need to get over it.

 

[Varminterror]

My theory about the 30-30 and 30-06 loosing their top spots with ammo sales could be a target shooter purchases hundreds of rounds each time they go shooting and a hunter purchases 20rnds a year if that

This doesn’t seem to pan out in practice. Higher volume target shooters tend to reload, hunters don’t, so they put more burden on factory ammo. Equally, target shooters are an exceptionally small subset of firearm and ammo buyers and owners. Somewhere around 1/3 of Americans are gun owners - around 110million people - whereas annual participation in competitive shooting sports is assumed to be around 4 million (around 20 million total entries per year in sanctioned shooting sports events, with most competitors shooting in multiple events per year, which naturally accounts for relatively high volumes of fire for pistol and shotgun shooting sports, and most rifle shooting sports are proportionately lower volume of fire, and lower participation (hard to keep up with action pistol!) - in other words, the 1500 participants in PRS, and few thousand benchrest, F-class, and Service Rifle shooters out there don’t buy more factory ammo or rifles than the 16 million hunters (typical hunting licenses sold in the US per year), or ~95 million other casual, non-competitive, non-hunting firearm owners.

 

[sage5907]

Im stuck between 270 and 7mm mag for an xbolt im buying. I want the power of the 7, but im not sure if its too much recoil. Ive looked at numbers that say they have near no difference, and some that say the 7 kicks way harder. Im wondering in the real world how much of a difference there is, and any other downsides to either one. Im not concerned with price of ammo as I will be handloading, or weight difference in the gun as there is near none between the two rifles. Any input would be greatly appreciated

I think you can do better than either of the above. If you are a hunter a good choice is a 280 Remington with a 22 inch barrel. With a 140 grain bullet it works just like a 270 Winchester but it will handle heavier bullets. If you are a young hunter who hasn't figured out that light rifles work better buy a 280 Ackley with a 24 inch barrel. With a 1:9 twist w/ long range scope it will work as a long range rifle. There is a big difference between hunting with a 22 inch featherweight w/ 3-9 scope and a 24 inch w/long range scope. I have done a lot of hunting with a 270, I now hunt with a 280, and I have given much thought to the AI but I always back out when I think about the 24 inch barrel. Buy something that is user friendly.

 

[Offfhand]

I just remembered, the proper answer is always get both!

Totally agree, they are different calibers for different purposes which justifys having at least one of each, like this Pre-64 M-70 .270 Winchester at top and the 7mm Rem Mag built by Dwane Wiebe, on Pre-64 M-70 action.

 

[d2wing]

That's fine. But it's not going anywhere, big difference between "dying" and disappearing. So when someone replies the 30-06 is fading, so what? Sales are down? And? Who cares. It's still the most popular cartridge in every camp I've been too.

People like you have been saying the same thing about the 30-30 Win for many years.

Inside of 400 yards I can't tell any difference in performance between the 30-06 and the 7 MM Mag. I just remembered that my son shot a big doe several years ago with a 7 MM, the bullet travelled the length of the deer from chest to tail.

 

[someguy2800]

This doesn’t seem to pan out in practice. Higher volume target shooters tend to reload, hunters don’t, so they put more burden on factory ammo. Equally, target shooters are an exceptionally small subset of firearm and ammo buyers and owners. Somewhere around 1/3 of Americans are gun owners - around 110million people - whereas annual participation in competitive shooting sports is assumed to be around 4 million (around 20 million total entries per year in sanctioned shooting sports events, with most competitors shooting in multiple events per year, which naturally accounts for relatively high volumes of fire for pistol and shotgun shooting sports, and most rifle shooting sports are proportionately lower volume of fire, and lower participation (hard to keep up with action pistol!) - in other words, the 1500 participants in PRS, and few thousand benchrest, F-class, and Service Rifle shooters out there don’t buy more factory ammo or rifles than the 16 million hunters (typical hunting licenses sold in the US per year), or ~95 million other casual, non-competitive, non-hunting firearm owners.

Not to put words into other peoples mouths, but I assume he meant recreational shooters rather than competitive shooters.