80 Percent 1911s?

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Thunderchicken

Thunderchicken

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A friend asked me if I'd like to make my own 1911 from scratch. As a famous imaginary law enforcement officer said, "a man's gotta know his limitations," and at first glance, I think building a 1911 falls outside mine. However, I am kind of fascinated by the idea and wondered what wisdom the assembled sages could bring to bear on the issue.

My initial thought is that by the time I get all the parts necessary that I could probably have bought a couple of serviceable weapons even leaving aside my lack of machining skill. However, I have a son-in-law that has a milling machine and might be willing to give me pointers. And it would be super cool to have a 1911 numbered 0001... But is getting help from someone a no-no when it comes to "building" a firearm? I have learned to expect legal pitfalls whenever you try something slightly out of the ordinary.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
If you machine it, and not someone else, you will be okay at this point.
You have to look at the basics, are you the one controlling the machine? Then you machined it. Pretty much everyone that runs a mill or lathe have received "pointers", would you agree?
 
While it would be fun for anyone who likes building this is a VERY hard one to do and end up with a good working pistol. LONG before the 80% thing it was common for people to try to build a 1911 from parts. Used to be the market was flooded with parts dumped on the market. Couple places sold frames and people would buy one and "kitchen table" a pistol. The problem was many found this was not like being able to take a working model apart and put it back together again. To make one that really works often takes a lot of hand fitting and knowledge. Often the end result left a LOT to be desired and at times was plain dangerous. So if you really want to try by all means, just make sure you go at it with realistic expectations. Building an 80% AR, or Glock clone into a working gun is simple with just a good jig. This does not translate to doing the same for a 1911. Does not mean it can not be fun and end up working.
 
Alex Clayton said:
While it would be fun for anyone who likes building this is a VERY hard one to do and end up with a good working pistol. LONG before the 80% thing it was common for people to try to build a 1911 from parts. Used to be the market was flooded with parts dumped on the market. Couple places sold frames and people would buy one and "kitchen table" a pistol. The problem was many found this was not like being able to take a working model apart and put it back together again. To make one that really works often takes a lot of hand fitting and knowledge. Often the end result left a LOT to be desired and at times was plain dangerous. So if you really want to try by all means, just make sure you go at it with realistic expectations. Building an 80% AR, or Glock clone into a working gun is simple with just a good jig. This does not translate to doing the same for a 1911. Does not mean it can not be fun and end up working.
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As a toolmaker, I like benchwork. It can be very rewarding it one knows what the end result is to be.
 
kcofohio said:
As a toolmaker, I like benchwork. It can be very rewarding it one knows what the end result is to be.
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That means you are already a Machinist so yes, for you it should be rewarding. Pistol will end up costing more than a commercial pistol but, that will not matter when you enjoy shooting the pistol you built. I never paid much attention to the 80% AR's. When they started making noise about making them a no go I had to try. I ended up with a couple of them that cost me more (pre panic) than I could have just gone and bought one for but, it was a hell of a lot of fun and when I take them out to shoot it feels great to think, I made that. :):)
 
Thunderchicken

I had an old Essex frame that I picked up for next to nothing years ago. Decided one winter I was going to do something with it and started assembling parts for it. Now keep in mind the holes had already been drilled in the frame, not that they were all straight and true, but they were there. I'm no machinist but I am pretty handy with a set of Swiss files and somehow managed to get things lined up properly so that internal parts could be installed.

One thing about parts I should mention: avoid any prepackaged parts kit unless it comes from a known manufacturer. Almost all the "surplus parts" I bought were poorly made and wouldn't fit or work right even when I did get them to go in place.

Another thing that's handy when doing a build is to have the exact same gun on hand so you can actually see how the parts are supposed to look and function when installed correctly by the factory. A How-To book with lots of photos and diagrams would help a lot too!

I originally planned on making this a .38 Super gun but I ended up giving the slide away to a friend of mine so he could build one of his own. So the frame sat for awhile until I came up with the idea of putting a .22 conversion kit on it. Looked at Marvel Precision and Advantage Arms but they were always out of stock. Then one day while looking through Brownells or Midway's website I came across a TacSol 2211 conversion kit and it was in stock! Was very well built, easy to install, and works perfectly!

Bottom line is if I can build this anyone can!
fUh2v4s.jpg
 
I was pretty intimidated building a 1911 from an 80% kit when I started mine. It was surprisingly easy using the Stealth Arms Phantom jig that was linked above. The only frustrating part is fitting certain parts together that are built oversize like the thumb safety working with the sear spring. Building a few firearms is something I think every owner should do at least once or five times. I am already looking at a not-glock build, as I am losing hope for the PSA Dagger to come out.
 
The 1911 is not the gun to try an 80% on; it is a hand fitted, old-world style pistol. They don't just pop together and work, like an AR-15. If you already are a gunsmith and familiar with the 1911, then fine. Like herrwalther, I have the background to do it, and it's crossed my mind a few times over the years, but right now I have other gun ownership goals. Never say never, though. If you are serious, do your homework.
 
Alex Clayton said:
That means you are already a Machinist so yes, for you it should be rewarding. Pistol will end up costing more than a commercial pistol but, that will not matter when you enjoy shooting the pistol you built. I never paid much attention to the 80% AR's. When they started making noise about making them a no go I had to try. I ended up with a couple of them that cost me more (pre panic) than I could have just gone and bought one for but, it was a hell of a lot of fun and when I take them out to shoot it feels great to think, I made that. :):)
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I'm going to do one, only because that's the only way the receiver I want comes.
 
I've assembled several M1911's from a stripped frame. I'm quite capable working with the hand tools necessary and bought a jig or two to make some of the fitting easier. The nice thing was I built the guns as I wanted them with the parts I wanted, generally higher quality parts than generally available on a basic M1911.

I enjoyed building them.

I've looked at building an 80% but it is a bit more work than I care to take on at the present. I have a mill and have done some good work on it, but I'm concerned that it could be capable of precision needed for a 1911 frame.

Anyway, a good book about 1911's is necessary, I'd recommend "The M1911 Complete Assembly Guide" by Walt Kuleck but there are others available.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019367571

Here is one of mine.

index.php
 
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I knew of some built before Stealth Arms jig was invented, it took a serious understanding of the fitment. These days, it only requires patience not to drive the cutter too far out.
 
To many of us the fact that we can legally assemble a pistol without serial numbers is enough of a reason. Some folks try to say you have to serialize them but that's bunk, No one can hide away my serial number because it doesn't have one, and there's something beautiful about that. The down side is that you can't sell it, but after the pains it takes to do a really good one no one would pay for my time anyway, so I'd never sell.

In addition the 1911's I've assembled from 80% frames are more accurate than most commercial guns I've owned. That's just a product of the time spent fitting, which, as I mentioned, can add up. 80% AR's are laughably easier to assemble.
 
entropy said:
The 1911 is not the gun to try an 80% on; it is a hand fitted, old-world style pistol. They don't just pop together and work, like an AR-15. If you already are a gunsmith and familiar with the 1911, then fine. Like herrwalther, I have the background to do it, and it's crossed my mind a few times over the years, but right now I have other gun ownership goals. Never say never, though. If you are serious, do your homework.
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And like AR-15s, once you do one you do more. I built one 1911 in 45. Plain jane 5" with an aluminum frame. Now I want to do one in 10mm, with a rail.
 
Thunderchicken said:
A friend asked me if I'd like to make my own 1911 from scratch.
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There is a big difference from building one from scratch and completing one that’s almost done (80% of the work is completed).

There are lots of people out there than own milling machines that couldn’t complete an 80% and likely hundreds of CNC milling machine operators worldwide making receivers they couldn’t machine on a manual mill.

That said, lots of people buy and upper, lower and parts kit, put them together and say they “built” an AR. So, I suppose milling rails and drilling some holes might count as “from scratch” to some.

The hardest part from a machine standpoint would be the long opening for the magazine, in the receiver and barrel/lug portion of the slide.

A copy of this book would be up there on my list of things to get.

59E4904D-9C87-4A92-89B1-85648AC1F6B9.jpeg
 
Given the available frames out there to buy new (Brownells had several options last week) and the pending legislation in some states I think I would go with a known metal frame from a quality maker. Then, assembly it as you like. Higher odds of success, better quality, I think and won't have to worry about possible 80% legislation down the road.
 
I've been looking for a project to do during the pandemic and this thread got me interested in another 1911 build.

I'm in the process of ordering parts for a 38 Super light weight Commander 1911. I've ordered a "real" frame as opposed to an 80% frame.

With parts that I consider better than average, the cost will be in the $1500 range. These include a Caspian slide, Wilson and Ed Brown parts, and Novak sights.

Considering a new Colt NM 1911 runs about $1300, one needs to consider the benefits of building a 1911. Personally, I like the project challenge.

A 9x23 might be on the horizon.:)

Of course these days, parts are available while complete guns are not.
 
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I have built many Glocks from 80 percent frames and some ARs from 100 percent frames; and all have been successful, though some went together better than others. Since I love 1911s and own three, I just attempted my first 1911 80% build. I bought a cheap aluminum officer frame on gunbroker, a rock island slide, Fusion bull barrel, and then high quality parts from Wilson combat. I also purchased the slide rail and drill jigs from Matrix precision (270 dollars). These jigs are works of art and worth the money.

The 80% 1911 build is ten times more difficult than the 80% Glock or 100% AR builds. I had to watch many youtube videos and had some problems with the plunger tube (needs refinishing). But in the end, the gun ended up flawless. It's a 38 super with 3.5" barrel, 32 oz loaded; and it's more accurate and reliable than my Ruger SR 1911 Officer. And I have fallen in love with 38 super--1300 fps from this gun. I am currently working on three other builds. Here's a picture of the result.
 

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cfullgraf said:
I've been looking for a project to do during the pandemic and this thread got me interested in another 1911 build.

I'm in the process of ordering parts for a 38 Super light weight Commander 1911. I've ordered a "real" frame as opposed to an 80% frame.

With parts that I consider better than average, the cost will be in the $1500 range. These include a Caspian slide, Wilson and Ed Brown parts, and Novak sights.

Considering a new Colt NM 1911 runs about $1300, one needs to consider the benefits of building a 1911. Personally, I like the project challenge.

A 9x23 might be on the horizon.:)

Of course these days, parts are available while complete guns are not.
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Sounds like a worthy project!
 
I have to agree with what everyone has said already. You really need a good understanding of how a 1911 works and be able to hand fit everything. Even getting replacement parts directly from the manufacturer that built your pistol will require hand fitting most of the time. Having a machinist/tool and die maker background definitely helps. Building a 1911 is more involved than an AR or Glock clone for sure.

Being a machinist in the Army gave me a lot of good experience since the armorers would bring stuff to me to work on that was beyond what they could do.
 
1911 is not a lego set glock or ar. If you wanna do one right buy these books.. 9B4FBE6F-C112-46BF-B9E0-FD9B70282D6C.jpeg

And then seriously read through these books. Even then there’s little tips and tricks that aren’t going to be in them. I’ve built a couple 1911’s and I learned from a guy who’d built them professionally. A lathe and mill save time but building one thats functional takes a lot of time.

EDIT: It would seem the Kuhnhausen books were already mentioned. Sorry for a duplicate.
 
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