870 Wingmaster - What do you mean by "smooth"?

[marklbucla]

I recently got an old Wingmaster and have read that they have "smooth" actions, smoother than an Express.

Pumping the Wingmaster seems to take a smidge more effort, but the resistance is definitely more consistant than with the Express. The Express is a little sticky at first, but it gets much lighter about a third of the way through.

Is this what it's supposed to feel like?

What exactly is meant when you say that the Wingmaster is smoother than an Express?

 

[Dave McCracken]

Both can be smooth, Mark. Work polishing is a big part. So is a modicum of tinkering.

Stone the wear marks on the action bars, remove any flash left from the stamping and LIGHTLY radius the corners for the length of the bars. Lightly lube and reassemble.

Also check for straightness. Use a straightedge to make sure the bars are straight and parallel. Use your hands rather than tools with leverage and be gentle.

 

[jdinor]

Smooth......?

The only time anyone really thinks about the "smoothness" of a perfectly functional pump shotgun's action is when they are sitting in their easy chair fondling the gun.
When a flock of chukars flushes from under your pointers nose and you fire 3 fast rounds, downing a bird or two, you won't even think about how "smooth" the slide is as long as it cycles. Keep it clean, lubed and use it. The more you use it, the better your 870 Wingmaster will work and the less you will think about it.

 

[New_geezer]

I have a Win Model 12 and a JC Higgins Model 20 pumps. Point either one straight up in the air and hit the slide release and the weight of the forearm alone will open the chamber fully. When in use, the effort to cycle these guns is practically nil.

The Wingmasters and the Express are in essence the same gun but the Wingmaster is a much more finished product. Better wood, better bluing, often some engraving and the internals are all polished and finished off. All of this makes the Wingmaster an attractive gun with a broken in feel right out of the box. The Express is built to a price point with cost cutting in the wood used, some non-critical plastic parts, the external finish, and the polishing of the internals. As Dave points out some time spent smoothing and lubing the internals yourself will make an Express's action just about as smooth as a Wingmaster. A large number of rounds thru the gun will also eventually achieve the same result.

 

[SSN Vet]

detail cleaning....

recently got an old Wingmaster

did you completely disassemble it and do a detailed cleaning?

I'm no expert......but have found that "old" shotgun, not cleaned after it's last several uses, followed by sitting in a closet, followed by sitting on a display rack is a recipe for sticky action.

 

[farscott]

Point either one straight up in the air and hit the slide release and the weight of the forearm alone will open the chamber fully.

My 1969-vintage Wingmaster and 1972 TB do the same thing -- after a good cleaning following the purchase. Be sure to clean and lubricate your Wingmaster before judging the action.

 

[marklbucla]

The only time anyone really thinks about the "smoothness" of a perfectly functional pump shotgun's action is when they are sitting in their easy chair fondling the gun.

Isn't that half the fun?

 

[richardschennberg]

Both can be tight when new. Most Wingmasters have a better fit, but you might get lucky with an Express or just need more break-in time. I have not seen one with a loose fit but I would want to handle a older used firearm or a new Express in person: too tight or a bit rough is easy to fix or will get better than time, but too loose or sloppy may be incurable or too expensive to be worth it.
Richard
Schennberg.com

 

[jdinor]

Solution to a sticky pump...

Adrenaline and gun oil.

 

[rwc]

My FiL has a 20 year old Wingmaster and a 2 year old Express. Glossy and smooth vs. rough and sticky.
That said, the ducks didn't seem to notice the difference.

 

[kbheiner7]

My Wingmaster is the definition of smooth. I can cycle the action without touching the forend. A quick shove forward holding only the pistol grip will cycle a shell into the chamber. I have yet to see any other pump gun match that feat.

 

[22-rimfire]

The Ithaca Model 37's were well known for their "smooth" actions. Maybe not as smooth as kbheiner7's wingmaster though. Nothing wrong with a little gun fondling in front of the TV. Try to remember to check if it's loaded though. TV's don't hold up too well with a load of shot headed in their direction.

 

[Red Label]

Use them and clean them and then use them some more. I've got a "new" to me TB trap thats almost 30 years old thats not as smooth as my 10 year old express but the express gets used all the time and my trap gun was only used slightly in its life. That however is changing as we speak!

 

[MCgunner]

The smoothest pump action shotgun I know of is the Ithaca M37 or Browning BPS. The 870 (any I've ever used) is a POS by comparison.

 

[Geno]

Good and Better

I have seen good Wingmasters, and some that are even better. I too agree that the Browning is slick. But, I would still buy the American-made Remington.

Doc2005

 

[jdinor]

37 Ithaca vs 870 Remington

MCgunner refers to the 870 as a POS. Huh??

Sure, the finely machined, hand built M37 slides perfectly while sipping your latte by the fire while the snow falls on my 870 and my dog is on point. The smell of the gun oil and sound of the M37's action is oh so sweet. I have 2 of them. They stay at home with my wife by the fire while a trusty old workhorse 870 goes to the field.
The M37 just does not compare to the 870 for reliability. Everyone I know who has ever used one seriously will agree, the M37 is prone to failure. Too many times the 37 has let me down by dropping an unexpected shell. A flock of chukars take to wing, BOOM, "smoooooooooothest" pump, BOOM, "smoooooooooooooothest" pump, CLICKKKKKKKK. SOB!!!!!!! I look between my feet and find a live one that the 37 dumped by accident.
Too many times. No more!!!!!!!
I want a dependable pump, not a gun that everyone agrees has the "smooooothest" action. The 870 is the answer. Period. It will cycle anything included poorly crimped reloads. Try that in your "smoooooth" M37.
On the otherhand, if I want to fondle a shotgun by the fire and marvel at the smoothness and complexities of the action, the Ithaca 37 is my choice over the 870.
Like I said, a little gun oil and a shot of adrenaline and your 870 will be the "smoothest" pump in the field.

 

[foxmeadow]

Hi y'all, my first post..
Last week I bought a used Wingmaster and thought the action felt good,but that it could be better. I tore it down and gave it a good bath, using brake cleaner, brass brushes, then BreakFree, until clean. Wiped it down, reassembled and tried it again. Wow. Smooooth!!

 

[starsandstriper]

500

i had to do it, bring up the old 500. Well, i think that the 500 cannot be compared to the wingmaster for smoothness, i think it beats out the express anyday. As a matter of fact, i just chose my christmas present yesterday and it came down to the 870 express(parkerized ) or the 500. after holding only one 870 express and only taking a quick glance over it, i knew right away that the 500 was a better choice. BTW i actually went to the store looking forward to finally getting an 870, but they only had the express. anyways, i consider smooth to include the recoil and muzzle jump too. with most pumps, recoil is usually the same, but now that mossberg ports their barrels, it may reduce recoil a bit, but it will definately reduce muzzle jump a lot, which makes it possible to stay on target to justify the cycling of what i think is a moderately smooth action. P.S. i am a great fan of both the mossberg 500 and the 870 wingmaaster (or older worn in expresses). oh yeah, and yule haf ta forgive mah grammar.

 

[kbheiner7]

The smoothest pump action shotgun I know of is the Ithaca M37 or Browning BPS. The 870 (any I've ever used) is a POS by comparison.

I have to counter this with my own experience.

My parents bought me a very nice BPS for high school graduation. It was a beautiful, slick gun, but a jam-o-matic all the same. I threw it in the Weber River not 5 miles from Browning headquarters in Morgan, UT.

If you want a Browning, get a stack-barrel. Their O/Us are nice. Their pumps and autos suck rocks. I know, I've owned both. :banghead: