8mm Mauser hunting loads

[ocabj]

I have a Czech VZ24 that I'm going to scout scope and make a quasi hunting gun out of. I'm playing around with some Sierra Pro Hunter 150gr Soft Points and H4895 right now.

I was wondering how heavy some of my fellow loaders have taken their 8mm Mauser loads bullet wise. I figure 170-180gr is the heaviest you can go, and maybe 200 is pushing it. I looked into 200gr but from what I understand, the .323 200+gr bullets were designed for the 8mm Remington Magnum, and not 8mm Mauser. Interested in what others have found.

 

[Okiecruffler]

For hunting Whitetail, I was always fond of a Sierra 175gr bullet with a stout charge of BL-C(2). A friend of mine used the same load on Elk with great success.

 

[Clark]

Yes the 8mm bullets are designed for higher velocities than many load books show for the 8mm Mauser.


But.... I am getting 2600 fps with 200 gr bullets in 8mm Mauser at ~46,000 kpsi

Meanwhile the Rem 8mm mag will do about 3100 fps with 200 gr bullets at 56,000 psi.

So the Mauser has the muzzle velocity of the 8mm mag at 200 yards.

Do you thing the 8mm bullets will not function past 200 yards with the 8mm mag loaded hot?

 

[ocabj]

But.... I am getting 2600 fps with 200 gr bullets in 8mm Mauser at ~46,000 kpsi

What powder are you using for this load?

The reason why I'm using H4895 is because I have the greater part of a 1lb can sitting in my cabinet, and I wanted to put it to use.

 

[MAUSER88]

I don't hunt but I have been reloading 220 round nose soft points for my shooting buddy. He shoots them out of his WWII German G43 autoloader. They are plenty accurate out to 200 yards.

 

[sumpnz]

Some military loads for the 8x57JS used a 196gr spitzer bullet. The original 8x57JS was a 154gr FMJ spitzer, but some armies went back to closer to the heavier weights from the older 8x57J which had been a 200gr roundnose.

From what I understand, it's at the heavy end of the spectrum that the 8x57 competes most favorably against the .30-06. You can go as heavy as 250gr, though 220 is the typical top end, and so long as your rifle shoots reasonable groups, that would make one heck of an elk/moose thumper out to 200+yards.

My FFL worked up a load for me for my Turkish T38 Mauser. We chrono'd the load at 3006 fps average (probably a good solid 90-95 degrees F that day). That was using a 150gr Hornady spire point. Don't recall the powder type, but I do remember it was a charge of 52.0gr. That was very close to a capacity load for that particular powder though. If my wife doesn't get me the Lee Anniversary Kit for Father's Day/birthday I'll probably have my FFL work up a 200-220gr load for elk hunting. Otherwise I'll do it myself.

 

[Clark]

47 gr surplus IMR4895 in 29" 1903 Turk, 200 gr, Sierra 2630 fps, 1" group

 

[cracked butt]

Hornady 170 gr Roundnose bullets
50.0 gr 4064
Federal 210 primer
Lee factory crimp

Shoots real good in my mauser carbines and hits hard.

 

[Zak Smith]

Using Sierra 175's, I've used 55.0gr of Win748 for about 2750fps.

Using Hornady 150's, I use 57.0gr W748 for about 3030fps.

Always work up in your gun, etc, and abide by good published loading data.

-z

 

[only1asterisk]

I've never had a problem with the 200 grain nosler partition expanding well in hogs down to about 2000 fps. In good 8x57 hunting loads that eqates to about 225-250 yards. I have stopped using it in favor of the Remington 185 grain bulk bullets. The expansion threshold seems to be a bit higher for these, but they shoot better in my riflle. I'd want 2200+ fps of retained velocity on target for deer or similar. That means 175-200 yards in a stout 8x57 load. These bullets were designed for the 8mm Rem Mag. According to Woodleigh, their 220 grain softnose should be good for 220 yards from a 8x57. I think that would be the heavy bullet combo I'd try. Even for heavy duty bullets like the 220 grain Swift should be good for at least 100 yards minimum (up to 200 yards possibly).


David

 

[Clark]

only1asterisk,
When I enter my 8mm stout loads into Quickload, I get 54.3 kpsi [not the wimpy one I listed above].
When I try 170 bullets with that pressure, the velocity drops to 2000 fps at 400 yards.

 

[only1asterisk]

Clark,

I know what can be done with the 8x57. I haven't tried to blow one up yet, but I acknowledge there is room between the "stout" manual loads and what you or I can come up with. While you and I will continue to load what we like, I will refer people to published loads unless I know something of their reloading experience or skills. The Accurate Loading Guide #1 has a good series of data well above the pitiful SAAMI spec including 220 grain bullets.

An aside; my hunting with the 8x57 has been with a full stock carbine having a barrel length of just less than 20â€. The 125-175fps reduction in velocity makes it a good platform to test the threshold of expansion. Some 150-170 grain 8mm bullets will expand below 1700 fps making them good candidates for a contender or XP.



David

 

[sumpnz]

Can't remember if it was this thread or a different one that I promised to post results from 8mm ammo testing, but I've now got the data so here it is.

Bullet: Hornady Interlock Spire Point, .323" 150gr
Brass: Remington 8mm Mauser
Primer: CCI 200 Lrg. Rifle, Lot F16C
Powder: 52.0gr AA 2520 Lot 18497
OAL: 3.003"

Rifle: T38 Turkish Mauser (mfg. 1941), 8x57JS
Barrel Length: 29.5"

Tested at: Desert Trails rifle range, Tucson AZ
Elevation: ~2500 MSL
Date Tested: May 23, 2004
Temp: 95F
windy but clear
Chronograph Distance: 10'

Shot No. Velocity (fps)
1 3,027
2 3,003
3 3,015
4 2,990
5 2,998

Average: 3007 fps
Std. Dev: 14.6 fps
Extreme Spread: 37 fps

As a comparison to the mil-surp Turk ammo that I've got, here the chrono data from the rounds we did on Saturday. Same location, same rifle. Temp during testing was 98.6F, again windy but clear. Chrono was again at 10'.

Bullet: 154gr FMJ spitzer
Brass: Turk military
Primer: Berdan style, corrosive
Powder: ??
OAL: Not measured

Shot No. Velocity
1 2,992
2 3,003
3 2,999
4 3,036
5 3,002
6 2,980
7 2,963
8 2,968
9 3,017
10 2,983

Average: 2994 fps
Std. Dev: 22.2 fps
Extreme Spread: 73 fps

An observation: The Turk ammo must be one of: Much higher pressure, or much softer brass, or some combination of the two. The rounds loaded by my FFL had no extraction issues, and the primers were barely flattened, with no sign of cratering. The Turk ammo began having extraction issues after just a couple rounds (hard to get the bolt all the way up) and had significant cratering in the primers.

The Turk ammo seems surprisingly consistant based on standard deviation. I would like to chrono a bunch more rounds and get a large sample (30 or 40 rounds) to get a better idea of the real quality. It would also be interesting to see how the group sizes compare to the loads from my FFL. Once I get either Mojo sights or a pistol scope on the rifle, I'll have to do that experiment.

 

[Clark]

I shot Turk ammo with the rear screw hole of the front scope mount drilled and tapped all the way thogh the chamber. *
Other surplus ammo, and my handloads got a bump of brass stuck in the hole.
The Turk ammo blew a hole in the case and the plug of brass must have exited through the hole.

This is not the proper way to measure pressure, but it indicates that the Turk ammo is high pressure.


* It is a shame too, as that is the mintiest Mauser barrel I have ever seen.

 

[sumpnz]

It is a shame too, as that is the mintiest Mauser barrel I have ever seen.

Take it to a smith and have the barrel taken off and put a good reciever. Or, send the barrel to me. I'd be willing to pay a fair price, though it would have to wait until August for reasons of finances.

 

[Clark]

It has been off a long time, and the action rebarrelled to .243.

I think I am going to screw a pair of 6-48 Allen srews into it, jamming into each other and with Lok-Tite.
Then I will finish with a reamer.

I don't have an 8x57mm reamer or anything quite like that, but I am always looking.


Tonight I pounded a .300- gage pin into a Parker Hale .299" bore to get my 30 Mauser pilot to fit, becuase I am too cheap for a Tokarev reamer. Now I am reaming with Vice Grips for a reamer holder.
It is Mickey Mouse jalopy stuff all the time