9 shots, 1 hit. NYPD officer vs. terrorist

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Speedo66

Speedo66

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I read this morning that the police officer who took down the terrorist yesterday in the latest NYC terror incident fired 9 shots, one of which hit the terrorist in the abdomen.

Luckily the officer was close by, having been called earlier to an incident at an adjacent high school. He was confronted with a fleeing perpetrator who had a weapon in each hand. They later proved to be a paintball gun and a pellet gun, but I doubt the officer was cognizant of that at the time.

So, adrenaline, running activity, fear, the surrounding horror of the strewn bodies from the attack.......

What say you High Road citizens, how did he do? Personally, looking at past police shootings around the country, I guess he did no worse than many others involved in similar situations. Just glad he was able to stop him before he hijacked another vehicle and did more damage.
 
With the possibility of being killed (Police Officer) in his head, plus the situation being very fluid and the bad guy with what looked like guns. I can`t second guess the officer.
But if the bad guys weapons were in fact real, then maybe things may have turned out differently .
Remember where this took place.
 
NYPD is the source of some spectacularly poor shooting basically every year. It's inevitable. They draw mostly from the local population - a population that has largely grown up without access to guns or marksmanship training. They drop them into the typical police academy firearms training program and then hand them a badge and a gun.

Shooting handguns well is hard. Shooting them well and fast is harder. Shooting them well and fast when under immense pressure is no small thing. It is very evident that the NYPD doesn't give sufficient training/practice by itself to instill those skills - the data makes that inarguable. And their geography and local/regional cultural and regulatory environment mean that their officers are disproportionately reliant on that same inadequate training.

It's not an easy problem to solve, either. The NYPD is huge. Materially improving the skill level would require vast investments in infrastructure (mainly shooting ranges) and consumable (ammo and wear parts on guns).
 
I used to shoot with a couple of local cops. One took 2nd place at the academy and the other was as good or better. Their stories of fellow officer's inability to shoot are hilarious. However, shooting at paper and shooting at a live target that is, or has the potential of, shooting back is a completely different scenario. Adrenalin can make a trigger finger do strange things.
 
Captcurt, Jim Cirrillo's autobiography has some great stuff about what characteristics they looked for in prospective members of their stakeout squad, and part of it was about trying to identify the people who would be able to hit what they were aiming at under enormous pressure. They liked competitive shooters and serious hunters.
 
ATLDave said:
NYPD is the source of some spectacularly poor shooting basically every year. It's inevitable. They draw mostly from the local population - a population that has largely grown up without access to guns or marksmanship training. They drop them into the typical police academy firearms training program and then hand them a badge and a gun.

Shooting handguns well is hard. Shooting them well and fast is harder. Shooting them well and fast when under immense pressure is no small thing. It is very evident that the NYPD doesn't give sufficient training/practice by itself to instill those skills - the data makes that inarguable. And their geography and local/regional cultural and regulatory environment mean that their officers are disproportionately reliant on that same inadequate training.

It's not an easy problem to solve, either. The NYPD is huge. Materially improving the skill level would require vast investments in infrastructure (mainly shooting ranges) and consumable (ammo and wear parts on guns).
Click to expand...
I've been reading about the NYPD's inability to hit the target (and NOT hit innocent citizens) AT LEAST since the early '80s.

When you combine:
  • poor training
  • poor supervision
  • an attitude of disdain, if not outright contempt for the public
  • a union organization that can justify literally any action by police
It's a wonder there isn't an Akai Gurley type incident every week.
 
Mag limit in NYC still 7 or is it 10?
If a citizen was facing a similar threat and had equal accuracy under stress they might not have stopped the threat (7+1)
With a 10 round mag limit a citizen with equal accuracy would have still had 2 rounds left.

A citizen carrying only a pocket gun would not have had enough ammo, same accuracy.

These examples don't take into account if the threat had not been stopped after a single hit, or had an accomplice.
 
Without knowing a lot more info it is impossible to say. I seriously doubt the bad guy was standing still in the open at 10 yards with a bulls eye drawn on his chest. Most likely both the bad guy and cop were running, ducking, hiding behind cover, and out of breath. If his butt was the only part of his anatomy exposed then it was a good hit.
 
This topic is not such a simple one as some people may think. Having served as a LE firearms instructor for 26 years, you work with what you're given.

A great many cops have little or no interest in becoming a competitive shooter, a competitive driver or an accomplished author ... and yet their jobs require that they be armed, drive emergency vehicles and write reports. Established standards regarding levels of acceptable training and how competency is demonstrated in meeting those standards can vary.

Also, it costs money to build/rent/lease & maintain range facilities, pay instructors and buy equipment (including guns and ammunition), etc.

While an unexpected dynamic, chaotic and rapidly evolving event (some words from court cases) puts horrific stress on the people involved, the events can be unique and totally unpredictable.

Let's not forget that sometimes extraordinary things happen, too.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/06/austin-cop-sure-shot-stopped-crazed-gunman.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/05/us/texas-police-shooting-hero/index.html
 
Speedo66 said:
I read this morning that the police officer who took down the terrorist yesterday in the latest NYC terror incident fired 9 shots, one of which hit the terrorist in the abdomen.

Luckily the officer was close by, having been called earlier to an incident at an adjacent high school. He was confronted with a fleeing perpetrator who had a weapon in each hand. They later proved to be a paintball gun and a pellet gun, but I doubt the officer was cognizant of that at the time.

So, adrenaline, running activity, fear, the surrounding horror of the strewn bodies from the attack.......

What say you High Road citizens, how did he do? Personally, looking at past police shootings around the country, I guess he did no worse than many others involved in similar situations. Just glad he was able to stop him before he hijacked another vehicle and did more damage.
Click to expand...

In the 1980s in the next town over from where I grew up in Virginia I remember a case of the police firing hundreds of shots to bring down a criminal. Many shots went into the McDonalds, gas station, and other businesses. If memory serves me correctly, thankfully no innocent people were shot. But only a few hit the criminal.

It struck me as to how many officers aren't very good shots.

Having been in a classroom when it was being shot up, I can attest to the fact that our bodies react in ways we can't predict when under fire. So we have to keep in mind that most police officers won't ever be fired on or have to fire their weapons in the line of duty. The good news is that it means our country is a pretty safe place. the bad news is that unless those officers served in the military and were under fire they haven't been tested.

I agree with the other poster that said the culture in NYC (and many other places) fosters police officers who aren't good shots. It's true that to improve officers shooting ability they'd have to practice more, and with budgets stretched even with simulators just the additional time would cost too much for most departments. Add the BLM and anti-police nonsense and any attempts to help officers improve their shooting will only be attacked as officers being blood thirsty and wanting to kill "innocent people".

Contrary to what my anti-2nd Amendment former coworkers and friends, I'd argue that there are many civilians who are much better shots than the typical police officer. In fact, those who compete and practice often are more likely to do better under pressure than the typical officer.

Not knowing the stats on the typical shooting, and especially in NYC, I can't say if the officer did better or worse than the norm. What I can say is that it doesn't matter if one shot is fired or one hundred. What matters is that the bad guy was stopped. I'd say though that this case is a good argument for why "high capacity" magazines are needed.
 
Walt622 said:
Add a 12lb trigger pull to the mix, I don't want to be anywhere near a NYPD officer when they start firing!
Click to expand...

Do they really have 12 lb triggers?
I'm not doubting you, I'm just sitting here in with my jaw hitting the desk wondering how anyone would shoot straight with a 12 lb trigger.
 
he did just fine. ya training im sure could be better.............. then people would complain about how much $ was spent on training with firearms when it should be used on diversity training, hug-a-thug programs,.......

before anyone starts yacking too much maybe ya aught to try it sometime.
 
Walt622 said:
Add a 12lb trigger pull to the mix, I don't want to be anywhere near a NYPD officer when they start firing!
Click to expand...
And that is the real problem. Try shooting a 12 pound trigger accurately, you will think you have the safety on before the gun goes off.
 
Hokie_PhD said:
Do they really have 12 lb triggers?
I'm not doubting you, I'm just sitting here in with my jaw hitting the desk wondering how anyone would shoot straight with a 12 lb trigger.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Glock NY2 trigger is 12lb to better simulate the trigger pull back when they carried wheel guns.
 
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