922R Do I have this right?

[CTGunner]

If I have a Saiga Sporter Rifle in .223 and want to use an extended magazine i.e. 30 Round Mag, I need to switch out one additional part of the gun in addition to using a USA manufactured magazine.

Here's what I want to do:
I will add a 30 Round SureFire Mag (which counts as 3 compliance parts) I think.
I will add a SureFire (USA Stamped) Forearm (which counts as 1 compliance part) I think.

This gets me down from 14 international parts to 10 making the gun 922r compliant. Do I have it right?

 

[Shadow 7D]

Kinda, but then you are best just converting it with US made parts, because if you put a non us mag in or change any other part, you run into trouble.

 

[CTGunner]

Kinda, but then you are best just converting it with US made parts, because if you put a non us mag in or change any other part, you run into trouble.

I don't follow. If i pop out the 30 round mag and put in the original foreign made 10 round mag the gun is back in the sporter configuration. So, I would think there is no issue at all.

 

[jhansman]

Head over to the Saiga-12 site and read up. Many, many there have asked and had 922R questions answered. In fact, in the Tech section, there is a separate forum just for legal compliance.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=65

 

[nwilliams]

I don't follow. If i pop out the 30 round mag and put in the original foreign made 10 round mag the gun is back in the sporter configuration. So, I would think there is no issue at all.

You only run into trouble if you have installed a pistol grip on the gun. Adding a pistol grip to a "sporter rifle" rifle makes it an "assault rifle", it's very stupid I really hate 922r

The basic rule with 922r is that guns can't be imported into the county with in "assault rifle" configuration. Once the gun is imported it needs to stay either in sporter configuration or it needs to have no more than 10 foreign on it if you add a pistol grip to it.

Since it sounds to me like you have not added a pistol grip to your Saiga you should be fine using any mags you want in the US or not. Of course your easiest solution to get around 922r and have a different grip would be to buy a skeleton buttstock, it's considered a thumbhole stock and won't count as a pistol grip so 922r won't be an issue.

Hope this helps

 

[CTGunner]

nwilliams - you are correct. The gun doesn't have a pistol grip, just the standard rifle stock. One last thought - I'm pretty sure that adding the 30 round mag takes the gun out of sporter configuration, just like adding a pistol grip. I could be wrong though.

 

[Girodin]

You only run into trouble if you have installed a pistol grip on the gun.

A thirty round mag also invokes 922(r) bc you are no longer dealing with a sporting firearm. This is the whole reason that saiga rifles are imported in a way that makes it so they cannot accept standard AK mags.

Here's what I want to do:
I will add a 30 Round SureFire Mag (which counts as 3 compliance parts) I think.
I will add a SureFire (USA Stamped) Forearm (which counts as 1 compliance part) I think.

This gets me down from 14 international parts to 10 making the gun 922r compliant. Do I have it right?

Yes that would be a compliant rifle. Personally I do not like to rely on mags for compliance but then you may be dealing with other state law issues when it comes to doing a pg conversion.

The basic rule with 922r is that guns can't be imported into the county with in "assault rifle" configuration. Once the gun is imported it needs to stay either in sporter configuration or it needs to have no more than 10 foreign on it if you add a pistol grip to it.

Although in effect that is more or less what is going on I believe it is more accurate to say that 922r prevents one from assembling a non sporting rifle with more than 10 countable foreign parts (it is important to note that ATF interprets assembling to include the act of inserting a magazine). I'm actually not sure if a PG alone gets you into non sporting configuration. I am sure that a 30 round magazine does.

Since it sounds to me like you have not added a pistol grip to your Saiga you should be fine using any mags you want in the US or not.

As stated above this is not correct.

Of course your easiest solution to get around 922r and have a different grip would be to buy a skeleton buttstock, it's considered a thumbhole stock and won't count as a pistol grip so 922r won't be an issue.

Again a pistol grip is not the dispossitive factor for determining a non sporting. You'll note that there are saigas imported with thumb hole stocks and they still come in without the ability to run standard mags. A 30 round mag in such a weapon is non sporting configuration and thus one needs to mind their parts count lest he or she violate 922(r).

 

[CTGunner]

Thanks Girodin. I don't have any desire, at this point, to do a full conversion. I actually like the rifle configuration and the cost associated with adding the pistol grip and moving the trigger just isn't worth it to me. I am curious though why you say that you don't like relying on Mags for compliance. Can you elaborate on that?

 

[Shadow 7D]

because the AFT and some states have got a little whishy washy on it, basically, as the mag is removable, they say that during reloading, as it's not fixed your rifle is non compliant...

 

[CTGunner]

because the AFT and some states have got a little whishy washy on it, basically, as the mag is removable, they say that during reloading, as it's not fixed your rifle is non compliant...

This would make sense to me if the gun also had a pistol grip conversion. But if the gun just has a rifle stock then removal of the extended magazine would put the gun back into sporter configuration and hence compliance. Agree?

 

[Shadow 7D]

Yeah, but I know with C&R status, there is no way to reconvert short of original, a problem often encountered with the Yugo SkS

 

[jhallrv4]

I'm seeing a common problem here...some people are applying logic to 922r.

Hah! Good luck with that! My AK's are capable of moving between legal and evil with the smallest change of the most insignificant type. It's almost as if, they intended to make it very strange and difficult to remain legal, and fall into a trap of sneezing and causing an evil rifle to take shape!

Naw, that wouldn't happen.

Jeff

 

[nwilliams]

A thirty round mag also invokes 922(r) bc you are no longer dealing with a sporting firearm. This is the whole reason that saiga rifles are imported in a way that makes it so they cannot accept standard AK mags.

Ah, that's right. Any rifle that uses a high cap mag is considered an assault rifle as well. I forgot that's why the HK USC and SL-8 had modified receivers for this reason.

 

[nalioth]

Since it sounds to me like you have not added a pistol grip to your Saiga you should be fine using any mags you want in the US or not.

As stated above this is not correct.

It is partially correct.

As long as the OP doesn't buy any milsurp mags (and only US-made ones), he'll be fine using those and the factory 10 rounders.

However, as stated, once a foreign made non-sporting mag (11 rounds or more) goes in the well, it's a federal felony.