9mm, 40 cal, or 10mm?

[DougDubya]

You mean like the Diallo case, back when it was only 9mm Ball that was used?

As for the results of the 124-grain and 127 grain ammunition, they speak for themselves. The dismal history of the 9mm applies to the age of ball and Jacketed Soft points, not the use of full-power hollowpoints of solid construction.

Again, your momentum theory only applies to the time when our enemies will be iron plates. 9mm police and defensive ammo penetrate as deep as .45 ACP hollowpoints.

Cite instances where "stupid amounts" of 9mm were dumped into a target, and said 9mm was not a streamlined ball round that produced icepick-style wounds, or an opponent like Platt who took only one 9mm center of mass hit (because the shooter missed 27 times), then also took two shotgun blasts from Agent Mireles and three more rounds of .38 Special to finally be put down.

 

[tpaw]

easyg states:

I never said the 9mm is not capable of stopping a human.
It's just not as good as the .40 or the .45, that's all I'm saying

Shot placement will determine what is good, and what is not good, not the caliber!

 

[eric.cartman]

40 cal. just right. Less likely penetrate, has the knock down power and less recoil than 45 cal.

-1



But seriously, 40S&W recoils more (in a sense of felt punch to the hand) than .45 any day

 

[easyg]

But seriously, 40S&W recoils more (in a sense of felt punch to the hand) than .45 any day

Maybe to you, but I can't feel any significant difference.

 

[Lonestar49]

Have to agree with Eg

Quote: But seriously, 40S&W recoils more (in a sense of felt punch to the hand) than .45 any day
---------------

Quote: **Maybe to you, but I can't feel any significant difference.
--------------
...

** I have to totally agree, as the difference between my P229 9mm and 40cal is so close, that I prefer the 40cal with 180gr for accuracy and fast follow-ups just because there is no real difference for me.

I might add that one day at the range, I had my full size P220, and a nice young man and his girlfriend were firing (next lane) what I thought was a DAK P220, because she was all over the place with it (recoil per shot) but he was smooth and accurate as it gets.. I asked him if it was indeed a DAK (because of the smaller hammer) and he said yes, ever fired one? No, never have had the pleasure, I said, and he hands me the gun.. I took aim squeezed off each shot, was amazed at the ease of the DAK trigger pull, and asked him if he had ever shot a DA/SA 220?

He said no, and I had just run out of 45 ammo with mine, but thought that is what he had, what I had shot (docile recoil wise) and he smiled handing it back, and said: "mine is a DAK P226 40cal, it's my service weapon.." Boy was I embarrassed, but had to return the favor, so I let him shoot my Beretta Px4 40cal and (his first time with any Beretta) I have to tell ya, it turned out he was a LEO from up North, down visiting his gal, and he asked me if it was decocker only, or safety and decocker, which I told him G-model, decocker only, he smiled, decocked, took aim, full DA Pull, hit dead center at 10yds, and emptied all 10 within 1" just making a bigger hole.. The boy could shoot..

As I have said, it's not so much the caliber, be it 45 or 40cal, or 9mm, it's the gun, its platform, balance, weight.. that makes for the right caliber of choice with any gun and any, or the, individual type hand/grip/style.. and felt recoil.

IMHO


Ls

 

[XD-40 Shooter]

Regarding the comments about the tendency of 40 cal pistols to "blow up", this is complete and utter bulls***. I've reloaded well over 5000 rounds of 40cal in my XD-40 and have not had any problems at all. As long as you have a quality pistol with good chamber support, you won't have any issues. With Glocks, I'd absolutely stay away from reloads, the chamber support sucks. Outside of Glock, your good to go.

As far as accuracy goes, my XD-40 will reliably shoot one ragged hole at 20 yards if I do my part, its damn accurate.

I have zero interest in the 9mm, since I have become very proficient with the 40. No reason to go to 45 in my opinion either, the difference is miniscule.

 

[DougDubya]

XD- I meant only Glocks. The XD is afar better .40 platform, chamber support and ergonomics.

 

[easyg]

With Glocks, I'd absolutely stay away from reloads, the chamber support sucks.

This might have been true years ago....but the current Glock chamber support is no less than that of other autos.....

Glock vs Cz:

 

[Firepower!]

Here we go again

Well there isnt much difference in 9mm and 40SW. Only about 33% more energy, and that is nothing to compromise gun over or buy more expensive ammo. I think 9mm does everything that 40 can do....but if you want more power in your handgun then instead of moving from 9mm to 40 you should skip 40 and have 10mm which is substantially more powerfull. Otherwise 9mm is a good all round bullet. To sum it all, 40 is not something special. There are better options 45 or 10mm, in case one feels that he cannt knock some one down with 9mm

 

[JonB]

Well that was a fun read up to this point.

I went with a Glock 20c in 10mm as my first auto. Why? Because my dad had a S&W 10mm that I liked and decided it was a good all around caliber. When I bought it, I could get range ammo for about 12-13$ per 50. Not bad.

Then the XD's came out and I just had to have one of those. No reason to buy a .40 as I have a 10mm already. So I went with the XD-9. Great ergonomics for me on this one.

I see no reason not to get a 9mm as it will be cheaper to buy ammo for and that means more practice.

The 40? I don't have one, probably won't buy one, but a lot of people love the round and I can't see anything wrong with it.

10mm - love it. My favorite pistol round. I can reload 10mm for less than half the cost of factory.

 

[DougDubya]

JonB - a man after my own heart.

 

[tpaw]

Presently, I am shooting a Glock 19 and using Speer LE Gold Dot, 9mm Luger +P, 124 GR., GD Hollow Points.
Can anyone recommend a more potent 9mm round in place of what I'm shooting now, or am I OK with what I have?
Please don't suggest a larger caliber, I like the 9mm.

 

[DougDubya]

Gold Dot 124 gr has an EXCELLENT rep.

 

[easyg]

Nevermind.

Farther argument is pointless.

 

[Lonestar49]

No Problem

Quote: Presently, I am shooting a Glock 19 and using Speer LE Gold Dot, 9mm Luger +P, 124 GR., GD Hollow Points.
Can anyone recommend a more potent 9mm round in place of what I'm shooting now, or am I OK with what I have?
Please don't suggest a larger caliber, I like the 9mm.
------------
...

Find a +P, or +P+, 134gr 9mm JHP or " " "147gr 9mm JHP.. bigger the better..


Ls

 

[mavracer]

Presently, I am shooting a Glock 19 and using Speer LE Gold Dot, 9mm Luger +P, 124 GR., GD Hollow Points.
Can anyone recommend a more potent 9mm round in place of what I'm shooting now, or am I OK with what I have?

do they function reliably and go where you want them if the answer to those is yes your doing fine,matter of fact thats what I use in all my 9s that I use +p in.

 

[tpaw]

do they function reliably and go where you want them if the answer to those is yes your doing fine,matter of fact thats what I use in all my 9s that I use +p in.

Yes, I can bore a hole in a target at 25 yards the size of a tennis ball. I just thought there was something better out there. I'm new to Glock and I love it. I'm shocked as to how accurate they are!

 

[tpaw]

Find a +P, or +P+, 134gr 9mm JHP or " " "147gr 9mm JHP.. bigger the better..

Don't ask me why, but I was advised not to use anything larger than 124 gr. Why I don't know. Perhaps something to do with slower bullet velocity?

 

[DougDubya]

Tpaw - not lower velocity. Vastly deeper penetration to the point of 30% through and through on a perp for the early 147-grain loads.

This may have been fixed. It's not velocity which is the problem.

 

[DougDubya]

Nevermind.

Farther argument is pointless.

First - it's FURTHER argument.

And second, your looking at ancient 80's bullet technology, and ignoring the past 18 years of 124-grain +P bullet performance.

Read the information instead of dwelling on history.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Wait DougDubya, are you saying that the round overpenetrated and went clean through the enemy 30% of the time?

Velocity is the problem there, isn't it? Without as much velocity, the round will not overpenetrate as often.

 

[tpaw]

- not lower velocity. Vastly deeper penetration to the point of 30% through and through on a perp for the early 147-grain loads.

This may have been fixed. It's not velocity which is the problem.

I have nothing against a larger grain bullet, but do not want a through and through wound channel. Any research out there to show that a larger grain than 124gr. bullet in 9mm is a better preformer? If so, I'd use it.
I would also think that the type of bullet makes a differenct, hollow point vs fmj, etc. I would want something that will penetrate and expand or break up inside to cause more intenal damage.

 

[DougDubya]

Virgil - it's not necessarily the velocity. It's the construction of the bullet, the density and softness of its lead and copper jacketing. Increased deformation means it slows down in human flesh. Matching the bullet construction to the velocity is the problem.

Which is why you can have two similar rifle rounds for the same animal. One goes clean through the deer, allowing for a blood trail, and potentially breaking the shoulder, while the different constructed bullet may be stopped by the bone of the shoulder and not penetrate deep enough to make the deer bleed out.

tpaw - Marshall, Ayoob and Farnham agree that 124-grain +P will not overpenetrate. The 147-grain hollowpoint, however, still has too much sectional density to let a human body stop it in nearly 1 in 3 cases, at least according to what I last heard. However, my knowledge of 147-grain JHP pretty much seems to end at 2003.

 

[bhp9mm]

all good rounds i like the 9mm better its alot cheaper if u dont reload so thats what i would go with i like the 19

 

[mavracer]

early 147 designs failed to expand quite a bit causing over penatration.the newer 147 designs HST and Ranger-t series have solved this. I belive remmi GS and 147 Golddots are ok but not sure. theres a list somewhere I belive its from firearms tactical that lists all the loads that pass the FBI tests.My ammo selection process is step 1)find somthing on the list, usually what I can find the cheapest in bulk,step 2)test it for function and accuracy. step 3) quit ammo is fine