9mm AR conversions?

[Jon_L]

So, I've been looking some up and have no clue what I'm looking at. There aren't that many out there, but I've hit a wall on what is quality and what is not. So I was going to throw a few links out that and hope someone chimes in...

YHM kit:
http://www.2ndamendmentsurplus.com/...e-Upper-Conversion-Kit-16-Bbl-YHM-7300-9K.htm
ASA kit:
http://www.americanspiritarms.com/upper-assemblies/9mm-ar-15-m4-flat-top-upper-assembly-conversion/
And Sarco, Inc. made one that I'm pretty sure I'm going to go for (I like the long flash-hider look):
http://www.americanspiritarms.com/upper-assemblies/9mm-ar-15-m4-flat-top-upper-assembly-conversion/

Now, I know I want the bolt hold-open feature (so a bottom mag-block is needed), a ramped bolt, and a 16" barrel.

Thanks for the help,
Jon

 

[BigBoreFan]

And to further your choices

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/M4-LE-9mm-1385

 

[W.E.G.]

I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but what does a 9mm AR do for you that a .22 LR won't do?

I see the AR as .223 for serious work.
.22 LR for inexpensive recreation, and some forms of "training."

In today's market, the 9mm AR impresses me as the answer to the question nobody is asking anymore.

The ONLY advantage I can see in a 9mm AR is in the role as a suppressed "entry weapon" where there is some real benefit to be gained from the lesser sound signature of the suppressed 9mm over the suppressed .223.

Beyond that, I'm just not getting it.

Maybe some benefit at a range that won't let you shoot rifle caliber on the pistol range.
But, now we're into the rifle-on-a-pistol-range slope, and the question becomes: "Why not just use .22 LR?"

 

[Captain33036]

Hi Jon

I think a 9mm AR is a good weapon for home defense and range practice (especailly if there are no rifle ranges near you). If you have a weapon, you should be completely familiar with it and well practiced with it. In putting a 9mm AR together, you will learn a great deal and 9mm is about the cheapest ammo you can buy for real range practice.

As for 9mm in an AR: unless you have a professional need for 233/5.56, I would venture to say that 9mm in an AR is a fine choice. You cannot use .223 for hunting in some states and for home defense, 9mm is a perfectly fine, in a carbine. If there are no rifle ranges near you, you can practice with a 9mm carbine at many pistol ranges. Not trying to start an argument here, just my opinion.

And...if you practice using an AR shooting .22LR, you will not be practicing for defending yourself using 5.56. With a 9mm AR, what you shoot at the range will be what you shoot defending yourself. Just my opinion.

Not sure about some of your choices above. One choice does not list what magwell block they are selling you. Would not do that. The magwell block is the single most important part of a 9mm AR build. If it is not a good one, your gun will never be reliable.

There are two ways to go. 1) Buy a dedicated 9mm AR from a maker, or 2) put together a 9mm AR, using a standard 223/5.56 lower. IMO, putting one together is the way to go.

If you buy a dedicated 9mm AR, it can be 100% reliable and function well. You can get ones that use Glock mags. But...they are expensive and that is all that gun will ever be, 9mm. To me, this obviates the reason to have an AR. But, it is not a bad way to go to get a gun that is 100%.

If you put together your own AR, you have an AR. Since you will have a standard lower, you can put on any upper you want, including many that are excellent for hunting ...and defense. 6.5, 6.8, .300 and the 7.62x39 (AK) rounds might be better to have than 223/5.56, for some applications. SO, with a 9mm AR, you could have a great HD gun, great range gun, and with the addition of another upper, a very good hunting gun. That is versatility.

In order to put together a 9mm AR, this is all you need:

1. A standard AR lower (223/5.56 or multi-caliber). Maybe $250.

2. 9mm buffer ($25)

3. Magwell block ($50-200). This is critical. It is how you use 9mm magazines and get the round into the chamber. It is critical to the reliablity of the gun. SO....get the very best you can. The cheap $50 plastic ones are not good. IMO, get the Spikes or Hahn dedicated. I have a Hahn dedicated and it has been 100%.

4. Colt type 9mm magazines. (get good ones: Metalform, C Products, Colt)

5. A 9mm AR upper that ...most important...can be used with any standard lower. I have the CMMG. it is very good, reliable and not expensive ($500-600). It comes with a ramped bolt and is ready to go when put on a lower, as configured above.

That is it. Once you understand what parts are needed, it is simple. Really, it is a standard lower with a 9mm buffer and magwell block. Then a 9mm upper that can be used on any lower.

One note: it is very tough to do this inexpensively, you will have to budget $1050-1100. You CAN get a decent 223/5.56 AR for $600. And a .22 adapter for $100-200.

Hope this helps

Best

John

 

[lathedog]

I've been looking at these for years but havent gotten past the "why do I need this?" issue.

I would go with CMMG unless the ASA (or similar) was a lot cheaper. I've bought from both in the past and CMMG is definitely a better bet overall. They really seem to know their business, whereas places like ASA seem like warehouse outlets.

There are other places you have missed as sources for 9mm uppers. I have not checked recently but in the past I have looked at (or bought 223 AR stuff from): Del Ton, Model 1 Sales, DPMS, Bushmaster, (cant remember any more off hand). Del Ton is another small shop with guys that seem to be sharp on how to build an AR upper.

No one in this thread has yet posted about blackthorne. Usually I see half the postings warning about them. Do a search and draw your own conclusions.

I think a 9mm upper would be fun. The cheapest 223/556 on the market is at least a nickel a round more than 9mm, and 9mm is a fair enough cartridge for defense. I still see Winchester white box (WWB for short) 100 round packs at WallyWorld for under $18ish. That is reloadable brass cased US made ammo. Cheapest steel cased 223 is going to be $220ish out the door for a case buy.

Also 9mm can be used on a few animals where a 22LR is not effective, but really there is a weird divide in the animal world between animals that go down with a 22 and those that need much more. Coyotes would be an example of one in the middle, but they really require something with a bit more range (flat shooting) to hunt.

My personal decision would be to get a hi-point 9mm carbine, and I am really not interested in one of those either. However, a cost analysis of $250 for a complete gun vs. $600 for an upper is compelling.

Have you looked at the AR-57 upper units? I can read a ballistics table as well as the next guy but the 5.7 does seem to offer some opportunities that a 9mm does not. Ammo cost (by the case) is getting lower and you would be getting reloadable brass cased ammo for your money. The magazines are plentiful, and have a mainstream backing in terms of military/police sales on the international market, so you will be less likely to end up high and dry in a few years with no mags to be found.

Speaking of longer term factory support, I would strongly consider getting a 9mm upper (if you do in fact get one) that uses the colt style mags. I always consider future need to buy spare parts and magazines before I buy anything anymore.

 

[tahunua001]

I have the model1sales.com 9mm conversion on a dpms lower. it takes colt mags and c products mags...all I have for it atm is the cheap C products mags. I haven't had a whole lot of trigger time to get it dialed in yet. it seems to need a little more lube than other ARs and I'm still tinkering with the proper mag depth so it's not 100% reliable as far as FTFs go yet but overall I would say the kit is very good quality.

WEG,
the 9mm is a bragging rights gun, pure and simple. everyone and their dog owns an AR in 223, about half those people and their neighbors dogs also own a 22lr AR15. not a lot of people have 9mm ARs just because for the most part they are conversions and build it yourself kits, nobody wants to go through the trouble of making one. however for someone who's state outlaws hunting with rimfires(like mine), a 9mm makes a good varmint gun without having to resort to 223 ammo prices. 9mm is perfectly suited for skunks, raccoons, coyotes, wolves and even magpies and crows inside 150 yards. anything larger is probably out of the question but it does have a purpose to serve in many a hunters arsenal.

 

[Jon_L]

Well, I built my wife a 5.56/.223 rifle a bit ago, then bought my own and purchased a .22 drop-in kit. Now I have my carbine (no modifications so far) and I want to do something different with it. So 9mm was my choice. I'm trying to sell the upper (Del-Ton, if anyone's interesting), and looking around to find the best deal on a quality upper.

Also, I was planning on making a few calls to these companies to be sure I was getting the right (quality) parts. Thanks for the links and support.

 

[Walkalong]

The 9MM AR is seriously fun, and reasonably cheap to shoot.

While it is not a .223 in terms of power, you do not want me shooting at you from around 100 yards in with mine, guaranteed.

I paid around $850 for a complete RRA 9MM rifle about 3 years ago, so I guess those upper prices are not all that bad.

 

[Taurus44]

A 9mm AR SBR, shooting 147gr (subsonic) ammo through a can is probably the BEST choice for an HD carbine as far as ARs are concerned. No muzzle flash and low noise are perfect for shooting in a dark hallway if the need should ever arise.

 

[xx7grant7x]

I like the Olympic arms, no need to change buffers, and takes sten mags.

 

[Jon_L]

Ever since this idea sprung into my head I've been thinking of eventually suppressing it, so I looked up on it and found the upper I'd like to get.
http://srtarms.com/
Anyone had any experience with these guys? I see nothing but good reviews, and I'd really like to pay only one tax stamp. Also, I'm curious if I have to send them a complete upper or a stripped? This is all pretty new to me.

 

[briansmithwins]

I've shot with a lot of guys (over the course of around 4-5 years) at our local Speed Steel matches that allow pistol cal carbines (PCC).

Of all the AR conversions. the ones that seem to FUBAR least are the Olympic's that use Glock mags.

I still haven't seen one that I'd trust my life to, but the Oly's are the best of a generally bad lot. Colts, RRA, Oly that use STEN mags, they all choke like a dog. Most the problems are FTFeed with the occasional FTExtract and a few OOB detonations. Gets your attention when you're ROing and the mag blows out the bottom of the gun and chunks hit you in the face, which is one of the reasons eyepro is mandatory at Speed Steel.

After shooting Speed Steel for around a year I decided I wanted a PCC of my own. I got a Uzi, which works perfectly. But than again, it was designed for 9mmP.

If you're depending on a PCC as a life saving tool when you could have a rifle, you're an idiot. You're giving up around 1000ft/lbs of energy, flatter trajectory, and less penetrating bullets* for what?

BSW

*Comparing 9mmP to 5.56. Thin skin varmint loads go thru less building materials that 9mmP JHPs.

 

[Redlg155]

9mm ARs can be a lot of fun. I had one for several years before I ended up selling it to someone who wanted it more than I did. In fact my next project will be a 9mm AR.

Some advantages-
1. The ability to shoot at most indoor ranges.
2. The recoil approximates that of a .223, allowing for more realistic training.
3. Ammo is cheaper than .223.
4. 9mm is an effective manstopper, especially in a 16" barrel with proper bullet selection.
5. It's just a lot of fun. You get more bang for your buck when shooting at 100 yards or less.

Some disadvantages-
1. 9mm ARs are dirty! Since they are blowback, they crap into your lower. Cleaning usually requires some time with a Q-tip and some spray type cleaner. A rug can also be used to protect your lower and keep some crud out.
2. Uzi magazine reliability can vary. Some are strangely finicky. I had one that would only act up on round 16 or 17. Anything above or below was 100 percent reliable. A removable mag block is a benefit in that it allows you to slightly adjust the mag block for better reliability.
3. JHPs, especially short truncated JHPs like Cor-Bon can be iffy for reliability. FMJ as a manstopper is an exercise in futility. As for penetration, a good frangible .223 is just as good for limiting excess penetration. I use 55 gr Ballistic tips in mine.
4. If you are a lefty, don't even try to shoot the thing without the correct brass deflector made for the 9mm.

My previous setup- RRA flatop upper and 16" barrel. Bushy Lower. RRA Mag block and Heavy Buffer. Modified Uzi mags and one trash Pro Mag. Dedicated 9mm hammer.

 

[JustinJ]

I would venture to say that 9mm in an AR is a fine choice. You cannot use .223 for hunting in some states and for home defense, 9mm is a perfectly fine, in a carbine.

I don't believe deer or larger game should be hunted with a .223 but i certainly wouldn't consider 9mm to be a better choice for clean kills.

 

[RECIT]

I have a complete RRA 9mm AR and like it a lot, mine uses colt mags and has been 99% reliable. I also have a few other 5.56 AR's for comparison. I like my 9mm AR b/c its quieter to shoot and cheap to feed. It does get very dirty, but its not any dirtier than shooting an afternoon of Wolf in my opinion.

To sum it up...they are just plain fun.

 

[Captain33036]

"...and for home defense, 9mm is a perfectly fine..."

I think for home defense, 9mm out of a carbine is perfectly fine.

A good point was made about the reliability of a 9mm AR in a self defense situation. Your build needs to be 100% and, if not, you will need to keep tweaking it and changing parts until it is.

A cheap, plastic magwell block and cheap plastic magazines made mine unreliable at first. I was going to experiment with several different components, but luckily, just went with the very best ones first and never had to change again. The Hahn dedicated magwell block and new Metalform mags are 100%. Have never had a problem after installing that block and using those mags. Not one failure of any kind. So, I have faith in it.

And, I have back ups.

I do believe 9mm AR's can be made to be 100%. But, as I wrote above, if absolute reliability is your goal, a dedicated 9mm AR, such as an Olympic or one of the others, could be a good choice.


Hope this helps

Best

J

 

[Jon_L]

Do any of you guys think this is a solid deal?
http://vtsupply.com/spike-39-s-tactical-9mm-complete-upper-drop-in-kit-magwell-included.html

 

[cottonmouth]

With the 16 inch barrel AR in 9mm you can get .357 magnum velocities, plenty of punch if you ask me.

J.B.