9mm cast boolits - won't chamber

[rwebster71]

Hi all - I've been reloading for about 15 years now, lots of different rounds. I cast some 9mm boolits last week and started to reload some but ran into a problem that I need expert advice on. Where better to come than here!

Here's what I'm running:

• Dillon XL650 press
• Dillon Decapping die
• RCBS bullet seating die
• Lee 6-Cavity Bullet Mold 356-125-2R 9mm Luger, 38 Super, 380 ACP (356 Diameter) 125 Grain 2 Ogive Radius
  
• Lee Precision Carbide Factory Crimp Die for 9mm Luger (90860)
  
• 70% wheel weights for lead / 30% straight lead, cast, then water dropped

Here's what's going on:

• Bullet seats inside brass on station 4, but brass swells out a bit where the bullet seats
• On station 5 with the factory resize die, everything shrinks down nicely, visually
• Take fully loaded round and it will NOT drop into the Lyman 9mm Case Length/Headspace Gauge. Goes in about 90% of the way

I tried to carefully chamber them into my Springfield XD 9mm and Glock 19 9mm, and am finding that it appears to hang up on the cast boolit itself. In the pictures below, you can see where the lead is "shiny" where it's contacting the breach bore when it tries to go into battery.

I tried lessening the bullet taper crimp on the factory crimp die, but them the boolit is pretty loose in the brass (I can spin it easily in the case, and could have probably pulled it out by hand if I tried).

I was thinking that I'm over taper crimping, but that shouldn't change how the cast boolit is hanging up in the breach/bore. Anyhow, I'm pulling my hair out (what little I have left). Any ideas here? Appreciate any help y'all can give me. Thank you!

 

[Spade5]

I cannot verify the truth on this, but I have seen others post that the Lee FCD will somehow expand the diameter of cast bullets. Maybe try the gauge after seating with no crimp step. I use the Lee FCD so I am not knocking it but I only load plated or jackets bullets and have had no issues.

 

[LiveLife]

Bullet seats inside brass ... but brass swells out a bit where the bullet seats

What does bullet diameter measure? .356" or larger?

I tried to carefully chamber them into my Springfield XD 9mm and Glock 19 9mm, and am finding that it appears to hang up on the cast boolit itself. In the pictures below, you can see where the lead is "shiny" where it's contacting the breach bore when it tries to go into battery.

What are your OAL and taper crimp amount (diameter) at case mouth?

On station 5 with the factory resize die, everything shrinks down nicely, visually

It's hard to see .001" to .003" visually but is enough for round to fail the case gage.

 

[armoredman]

In the 12+ years I've been doing cast 9mm, I was always told to never ever use the Lee FCD with cast, so I didn't. What are you sizing them to and with what type of sizer? I use the Lee push through sizer to .356. I quit using that particular mold, (the 125), some time ago as the fat ogive really caused issues in the CZ short chamber. The Lee 124gr TL is almost rebated in the ogive and works beautifully for me.

 

[243winxb]

Shorter COL is needed. Seat to where the ogive changes diameter.

May try that (soft?) alloy first before loading many rounds. Water dropped helps some , but not as good as oven heat treated bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

Seriously over crimped, back way off, just remove the flare and the problem will go away.

 

[straight-shooter]

Many years wasted trying to get the Lee molds to produce reliable bullets. I tried everything known to man to get them to work. Same problems your having. I use the Lee push thru sizer to .356 and do NOT use the FCD. I pulled a few bullets after sending them in the FCD and they did in fact get sized below .356

Once i ponied up for NOE and Lyman molds the problems completely went away. I know it's hard to justify the increased cost of the molds but it's pure bliss once you have them. I cast the bullets, powder coat them and finally they goes through the Lee push thru sizer.

 

[fxvr5]

Shorter COL is needed. Seat to where the ogive changes diameter.

This. Seat it deeper.

I cannot verify the truth on this, but I have seen others post that the Lee FCD will somehow expand the diameter of cast bullets. Maybe try the gauge after seating with no crimp step. I use the Lee FCD so I am not knocking it but I only load plated or jackets bullets and have had no issues.

The Lee FCD shrinks the bullet down since it sizes the round down to SAAMI specs.

 

[fxvr5]

Bu the way, it's bullet, not boolit.

 

[noylj]

No, for those that cast their own, their lead bullets are boolits.
Don't use the FCD with lead bullets. You are using WAY too much crimp.
If the bullet is contacting the lede/rifling, then you have to shorten the COL.
COL Note:
Per Ramshot (and all other reloading suppliers):
“SPECIAL NOTE ON CARTRIDGE OVERALL LENGTH (COL)
It is important to note that the SAAMI COL values are for the firearms and ammunition manufacturers industry and must be seen as a guideline only.
The individual reloader is free to adjust this dimension to suit their particular firearm-component-weapon combination.
This parameter is determined by various dimensions such as
1) magazine length (space),
2) freebore-lead dimensions of the barrel,
3) ogive or profile of the projectile and
4) position of cannelure or crimp groove.
• Always begin loading at the minimum "Start Load".
• Increase in 2% increments towards the Maximum Load.
• Watch for signs of excessive pressure.
• Never exceed the Maximum Load.”

Your COL (OAL) is determined by your barrel and your gun and your magazine and the specific bullet you are using.
What worked in a pressure barrel or in my gun has very little to do with what will work in your gun. Load a couple of dummy rounds (no powder and no primer) to the max. COL (OAL) and see if it fits your magazine, feeds in your gun, and chambers in your barrel.
Seat the bullet slightly deeper until you achieve all three of these goals. This is the COL (OAL) for you in your gun with that make of bullet.

 

[fxvr5]

No, for those that cast their own, their lead bullets are boolits.

I cast my own, and they are bullets.

 

[Rod47]

If you reduced the amount of crimp and the bullets were loose, you have another problem. Neck tension should hold the bullet. Use enough crimp to iron out the flare. Any more and you're buggering up the bullets.

 

[LiveLife]

No, for those that cast their own, their lead bullets are boolits.

This is how castboolits defined boolits vs bullets and they are all about hand cast lead bullets - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?40260-What-is-a-quot-Boolit-quot

"Boolits = as God laid it into the soil,,grand old Galena,the Silver Stream graciously hand poured into molds for our consumption.

Bullets = Machine made utilizing Full Length Gas Checks as to provide projectiles for the masses."
​

I sometimes prefer to use the term "projectile" to better clarify component instead of loaded round.

 

[hotshot357]

I have a CZ with a short chamber. I found some 135 grain coated bullets made by SNS Casting and they work perfectly. They have been re-designed to fit in short lead barrels. I can load them to a OAL of 1.150 and everyone of them pass the plunk test.

 

[armoredman]

That I would like to try some day.

 

[AR-Bossman]

Bu the way, it's bullet, not boolit.

Not on the internet it isn't. Boolit is how casters spell it.

 

[Texas10mm]

I cannot verify the truth on this, but I have seen others post that the Lee FCD will somehow expand the diameter of cast bullets. Maybe try the gauge after seating with no crimp step. I use the Lee FCD so I am not knocking it but I only load plated or jackets bullets and have had no issues.

You've got it backwards. The CFCD sizes DOWN a lead boolit.


OP:

I've loaded over 30K of 9mm this year on my 650. All with boolits I've cast myself. Here's my advice.

1. Get rid of the crutch. That Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die is NOT YOUR FRIEND.
2. Get a decent powder funnel. Try https://www.uniquetek.com/
3. Use your Dillon seating and crimping dies. That's what I do.
4. Get a better mold. https://www.mp-molds.com/product/35...t-base-8-cavity-aluminum-no-lube-groove-mold/ That's what I'm using for 90% of my reloads.
5. You never said what you are sizing the bullets to. I size to .357 using a NOE sizer as they are spot on. Lee is hit or miss.
6. I use Hi-Tek coating
7. If you insist on using the boolit then you're going to have to seat it MUCH deeper. It has a very fat profile. Or you can send your barrel out to be throated. Most 9mm barrels are not properly throated.
8. Or you just just ignore this old fat fool and keep doing what you're doing.

 

[blue32]

9mm is one of those cartridges. As was mentioned, seat it deeper until it passes plunk then verify with live fire. I had to drop the charge and work back up but its worth it. Try to get your crimp diameter to .380".

 

[MaxP]

Not on the internet it isn't. Boolit is how casters spell it.

No, it’s a select group that phonetically spells them in that manner. Personally, I think it’s kinda silly.

 

[fxvr5]

Not on the internet it isn't. Boolit is how casters spell it.

See post #11.

 

[Walkalong]

Bullet.... Boolit....who cares? I don't get why it bothers some folks. Kind of like clip/mag, while I might wince a little, I don't put my Mag badge on...

 

[joneb]

Are you applying any crimp on these loads?

 

[GooseGestapo]

XD’s are known for having little or NO throat. They are designed for factory loaded European jacketed bullet ammo @ .3545” dia.

The Lee bullet is a very good one, though not for your application.

Solutions:
1. Size to .355” and seat somewhat deeper
2. Change to the 120gr TCFN, or 125gr RFN bullet molds.
3. Have the chamber throat reamed on the XD to accommodate the longer foward bearing surface of the Lee 125gr RN.

I’ve had 3 XD’s, a 9, .40, and .45. They all had VERY short throats. The .45 required a Lee H&G .452” SWC to be seated flush with case mouth to chamber. Same load wouldn’t feed through my Springfield 1911.... too short! Traded it to gunsmith for work on a rifle.....

I too use the Lee FCD for the 9mm. But not for the same reason most do. The 9mm case is tapered, so the carbide sizer ring only sizes down the base expansion of the 9mm case. The crimp is adjustable by the top plug and is a taper crimp.

BTW, I too agree that you are WAY over crimping. You should only remove the flare from expanding the case for bullet seating-required for cast bullets.

 

[243winxb]

XD’s are known for having little or NO throat.

This.
Most common with 45 acp and the 1 Lee cast bullet. Seat bullet deeper/shorter COL or size to a smaller diameter.

 

[rsrocket1]

I also have a Springfield XD9 4" service and cast the Lee 356-124-2R "boolit" and this is what I do.
When they drop out of the mold, they are around 0.358". This is good because I was able to use them in 38/357 but there are better projectiles than this for that purpose so I don't use these for my wheel gun anymore.



I powder coat them which adds about 1 mil to the surface of the boolits. I then size them with the 0.356" Lee push through sizer. I learned that if I seated them to where the top TL band is flush with the case rim, I never have to worry about leade/throat being too narrow. I do use a powder through expander to bell the case ever so slightly and then use the Lee taper crimp die (not FCD) to bring the case mouth just inside vertical. Perfect feeding in all my 9mm guns. (M&P9, Shield9, 92fs, XD9). Originally, I seated them as shown below, but found that seating them deeper works better.



If you TL them, just size them down to 0.356". If they drop at 0.358 like mine, they may be too wide and bulge the case to the point of causing feed problems in the chamber. Squeezing the cartridges down with the Lee FCD is pretty drastic on the 9mm because it's a tapered case. I do use the FCD on 40 and 45 just to kiss the top of the brass which brings the bell to vertical but I don't use the FCD on 9mm, I just use the separate Lee taper crimp die.