9mm deer load

[milsurpguy]

The gun is a mark2 semi auto sten. I have worked up a load that's kind of impressive. 11gr of AA9 compressed, with a small rifle primer for 124gr. It's a half grain over the max, uses small rifle primers. Velocity is about 1,580 +/-10 feet per second out of a 9.5inch barrel. Accuracy is between 1 to 2 inches at 50 yards. With 100 yards being the max practical limit for deer hunting.
The load was developed to mow down packs of coyotes out to 200yd. But the sten pistol turned out to much more accurate and the ammo much more powerful than I thought it could be.
It's a load definitely not for use at all in factory produced hand guns. IMO There's no point in using AA9 on a 9mm with less than 6 inches of barrel.
It's already more accurate than some 30-30 rifles that i know have taken deer.
I have chronographed 357mag 125gr factory ammo out of a Henry rifle (not mine unfortunately) that showed an unimpressive 1,300 to 1,500 fps and these were supposed to be satisfactory for deer. But I know 2,000 fps is possible for a 357 mag rifle with 125gr bullets under a full power charge of H110.
So 9mm has the power it would appear.
If "regular 124gr 9mm bullets can't take that velocity" I could easily work up loads for 125gr 357mag revolver bullets or use 125gr .355" bullets normally loaded in 357sig.

 

[Antihero]

You want to hunt deer with a Sten gun?

 

[milsurpguy]

Why not?
If it were an mp5 would it make you feel better?
I can send the bolt forward with the HK slap as that's how I cut the reciever tube.

 

[Antihero]

Why not?
If it were an mp5 would it make you feel better?
I can send the bolt forward with the HK slap as that's how I cut the reciever tube.

I couldn't care less if it's an MP5, why the hell would I care?? That's a stupid question.

It's a 9mm, I wouldnt hunt deer with it in any form. Your velocities are way way low for 357 out of a carbine.

http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

I don't know what load you were using or what was going wrong with the chrony but you are roughly 500fps slow

 

[DocRock]

Or “mow down packs of coyotes”?

Very hard to take any of this seriously.

 

[Antihero]

You don't mention what weight bullet you are using but you are getting something like....600ftlbs.

That's not enough for a 100yd shot at a deer and there's no real reason to do it. It may be a cool intellectual challenge to you but it's pain and a slow death for the deer.

 

[Antihero]

Or “mow down packs of coyotes”?

Very hard to take any of this seriously.

Really, plus a compressed aa9 load? It's not exactly my first choice, or my 13th. 1580fps out of a 9.5 inch barrel isn't exactly pushing the realms of science and man either. I've hit over 1400fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel with sedate +p

But funnily enough, it would be a decent coyote load really

 

[milsurpguy]

So what I'm hearing is all the people who shot deer with a 357mag revolver loaded with 125gr bullets were subjecting the deer to a slow painful death?
As most of the top loads in my hornady manual put a 125gr bullet out of typical 6 to 8 inch revolver at between 1300 to 1500fps.
So which is it?

I'm not trying to make a ridiculous high pressure loads.

The 9mm hate on this forum is strong. That's a good sign this place isn't ran by 9mm fan boys.

 

[9x56MS]

The gun is a mark2 semi auto sten. I have worked up a load that's kind of impressive. 11gr of AA9 compressed, with a small rifle primer for 124gr. It's a half grain over the max, uses small rifle primers. Velocity is about 1,580 +/-10 feet per second out of a 9.5inch barrel. Accuracy is between 1 to 2 inches at 50 yards. With 100 yards being the max practical limit for deer hunting.
The load was developed to mow down packs of coyotes out to 200yd. But the sten pistol turned out to much more accurate and the ammo much more powerful than I thought it could be.
It's a load definitely not for use at all in factory produced hand guns. IMO There's no point in using AA9 on a 9mm with less than 6 inches of barrel.
It's already more accurate than some 30-30 rifles that i know have taken deer.
I have chronographed 357mag 125gr factory ammo out of a Henry rifle (not mine unfortunately) that showed an unimpressive 1,300 to 1,500 fps and these were supposed to be satisfactory for deer. But I know 2,000 fps is possible for a 357 mag rifle with 125gr bullets under a full power charge of H110.
So 9mm has the power it would appear.
If "regular 124gr 9mm bullets can't take that velocity" I could easily work up loads for 125gr 357mag revolver bullets or use 125gr .355" bullets normally loaded in 357sig.

I want some of what he is smoking

 

[v8stang289]

So what I'm hearing is all the people who shot deer with a 357mag revolver loaded with 125gr bullets were subjecting the deer to a slow painful death?
As most of the top loads in my hornady manual put a 125gr bullet out of typical 6 to 8 inch revolver at between 1300 to 1500fps.
So which is it?

I'm not trying to make a ridiculous high pressure loads.

The 9mm hate on this forum is strong. That's a good sign this place isn't ran by 9mm fan boys.

Yes, 125gn 357mag out of a revolver is too light for all but the smallest of deer. Even many with practical experience will tell you 158 grainers out of a revolver can be marginal. In a rifle with velocities approaching 2000fps things begin to change, but I'd still be hesitant on the 125's.
There's no 9mm hate here, most of us just believe in using the right tool for the job, respecting the animal, and a clean humane kill.
Will it work? Probably, with a perfect shot. Will it be quick and humane? Not likely.

 

[brewer12345]

There is a 9mm specifically designed for deer hunting. It is called the 350 Legend. Compare the energy you get from one of those to your hot rod 9 load and you will see why you are getting flack.

 

[9x56MS]

For the seasoned hunters here there is a 9mm rifle designed for big game some of you may have heard of it the Mannlicher Schoenauer model 1905 in 9x56. Loaded with 200, or 250 and if you can source them from Europe 270 grain bullets. Also available in 9x57 Mauser. Then on this side of the pond we have 35 rem, 358 winchester and 35 Whelen. But they are not true 9mm.

 

[35 Whelen]

@milsurpguy I think what everyone's trying to tell you is your bullet of choice wasn't designed for hunting game the size of deer, and the same goes for any 125 gr. .35 caliber bullet.

If I were in your shoes I would choose the heaviest bullet the....firearm....would handle, maybe a 147 gr. Even then I personally feel that's on the light side.

I hunt some with a .357 and have killed two deer and one hog with my carbine. The lightest bullet I used was a 162 gr. cast HP.

35W

 

[DukeConnor]

I don't believe there is a hate for 9mm.

Most people feel if you have a choice there are better options.

 

[9x56MS]

The ballistic and dare I say it pure physics problem with pushing a short light projectile (short meaning overall length of bullet versus diameter) the faster you push it the less stable it becomes. Too fast and it starts tumbling which makes it inherently less accurate. No hate for the 9mm as I own a model 1905 and have killed deer and hogs with it. In pistol form for self defense they are easy to shoot and quite accurate. What they are not is an effective deer hunting round.

 

[mdi]

I like seeing reloaders come up with "out of the box" thinking, if there is a reasonable outcome expected. I might try shooting deer at close range (20-25 yards) with some of my "hot" 9mm loads with 147 gr JHPs from an accurate gun. But, the OP claims good velocity and decent accuracy. Never fired a Sten, but I would put this idea in the "is this a good idea?" file, and leave it there (maybe if my family was starving and the Sten was the only gun I had, and I could get within 20 yards, I'd try it)...

 

[Nature Boy]

Personally, I hate spending all day tracking a wounded deer. I double-hate tracking them all night. It cuts into my beer drinking time.

It's why I wouldn't do what the OP is suggesting

I'm not making any value judgements here. It's your time and your deer

 

[NMexJim]

You don't mention what weight bullet you are using but you are getting something like....600ftlbs.

That's not enough for a 100yd shot at a deer and there's no real reason to do it. It may be a cool intellectual challenge to you but it's pain and a slow death for the deer.

That's energy at the muzzle (660) - not what's left (321 ftlbs) at 100 yards. I swat flies at 321! Bullet drop doesn't look too bad at maybe 8"?

 

[Bfh_auto]

The problem is you're underestimating the velocity a 357 gets and considering the wrong bullet weight.
I get 180 grain bullets up to 1980 fps in my 20" 357.
124s in a 9mm at 50 yards might be ok. But I prefer better choices.

 

[Terry G]

I have around a dozen 9 MM handguns so I certainly don't "Hate" the round. I think it's a great round. For Deer? No way, no how. I used a .223 once, much more powerful than any 9 MM and chased and tracked it for a mile. Good hit, heart/lung but not enough to put it down quickly. I have used .30/06 ever since. Think about it this way: A simple .30/30 at 100 yards has more punch than a .44 Magnum.

 

[brewer12345]

To be fair, I hunt deer with round ball black powder percussion rifles. The ballistics are, shall we say, less than impressive compared to a modern rifle. Deer aren't that hard to kill, so it works. Then again, compared to your proposed sten gun load my last two deer were taken at around 60 yards with a .530 round ball doing about 1200 FPS at the muzzle. Not a whole lot more energy than your 9MM load, but the ball is a lot heavier (230 grains) and it makes a lot bigger hole (.530 before it flattens and expands). At the very least, sling a bigger hunk of lead.

 

[derek45]

deer hunting with a ++p++ STEN GUN

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I have used a NEF Handi-Rifle .357Mag in the plastic stocked "Survival Rifle" configuration to take deer - using .357Max loads. The rifle's been chamber reamed for Maximums. I use a Hunter's Supply 200gr. HC-LWFN-GC and enough 2400 powder to drive that bullet over 1900fps - into .35Rem range. It still requires a good shot placement but with a 22" barrel that's a lot less challenging.

You're trying to justify a bad idea by complaining about having it pointed out why it's a bad idea. It's a bad idea.

Don't get me wrong, I do know folks who've killed deer with 9mm pistols before. And .38Spl's. I don't like them but I do know them. But there's a difference: they raised those deer from foals, hand fed them every day, fattened them up on corn and beer, named them and let their kids play with them, then when the day came, they held out their hand and the deer trotted up for a treat and got a 9mm in the ear. I don't call those folks my friends but I live in the same zip code as them so we get along.

 

[Terry G]

To be fair, I hunt deer with round ball black powder percussion rifles. The ballistics are, shall we say, less than impressive compared to a modern rifle. Deer aren't that hard to kill, so it works. Then again, compared to your proposed sten gun load my last two deer were taken at around 60 yards with a .530 round ball doing about 1200 FPS at the muzzle. Not a whole lot more energy than your 9MM load, but the ball is a lot heavier (230 grains) and it makes a lot bigger hole (.530 before it flattens and expands). At the very least, sling a bigger hunk of lead.

I have to dispute the "Deer are not hard to kill" statement. Deer being wild animals have a toughness and resistance to pain and shock. How many have made a good killing shot on a Whitetail and not seen it cover a couple hundred yards? Deer run pretty big in my area and if you want to be sure of a quick clean kill, use enough gun. Browning A Bolt .30'06, one shot, through the heart, ran 60 yards.

 

[brewer12345]

View attachment 988909
I have to dispute the "Deer are not hard to kill" statement. Deer being wild animals have a toughness and resistance to pain and shock. How many have made a good killing shot on a Whitetail and not seen it cover a couple hundred yards? Deer run pretty big in my area and if you want to be sure of a quick clean kill, use enough gun. Browning A Bolt .30'06, one shot, through the heart, ran 60 yards.

My standard of comparison is elk, which are hard to kill. Running a hundred yards after a fatal hit doesn't mean deer are hard to kill.