9mm fired case ?

[firstg19]

Hello,

For those of you who have 9mm in other guns other than glocks, what does the base on your fired brass measure. Cases fired in my Glock 19 all measure .388. I have measured 4 rounds that I picked up at the range, which do not have the glock imprint on the primer and they also measure .388. When i resize the case, the base still stays at .388, since the dies due not get the very bottom of the case do to the bevel at the bottom of the dies. I have a lone wolf replacement barrel on the way (so i can shoot lead) and I am wanting to see if my glock brass is larger than brass fired out of other guns. I had asked another barrel manufacture (not going to mention names) but they told me that it is not safe to fire any caliber glock brass in any gun due to the loose glock chambers. So, of course i dont totally believe that, especially since none of my brass has a buldge on it. What i am wanting to see is how far other guns let the base of the case expand. From what i have seen so far, it seems to be the same amount in the 9mm caliber.

not sure if all that makes sense...let me know if i need to explain it a little better

 

[helg]

Max diameter at base, P1 at the picture here, is 9.93mm, which is .391". P1 point is not bulging when case is not fully supported. The cave inside the brass starts .03" above the P1, so does the bulge. While you can measure diameter around bulging point, it is easer to use case gauge to detect the bulged brass.

I have measured the P1 on about 30 fired shells of different headstamps. It measured from .382 (Fiocci, WCC) to .389 (Hornady, TZZ). Nothing was above the .391" limit. For the headstamps that I have both factory and fired brass, I see that this diameter does not change after firing.

 

[firstg19]

helg, are you saying that your brass does not expand at the base? I went back and measured a remington umc round and a winchester white box unfired round at p1 and they both measure .385 as opposed to the .388 fired cases. Also, I went and measured my .45acp fired brass, which measures .473 at p1 compared to an unfired .45acp winchester white box, which measures .471. So, I had just assumed it is normal for brass to expand slightly at the base, was my assumption wrong?

 

[Beelzy]

The case expands just above the base, at the web of the case where the base becomes
the side of the case.

If you have expansion at the base of the case, you have some bigger worries than that!

 

[rfwobbly]

G19 -
Most of the target practice and plinking rounds fired in a Glock will reload just fine. These are such low-to-moderate pressure rounds that no expansion takes place, even with the "unsupported chamber". I reload fired Glock brass for my tight-chambered CZ all the time and it works fine.

Now you CAN get into trouble picking up brass fired at an IPSC range because some of the competitors are shooting "9 Major", "355 Super" and other 9x19 variants which run much higher pressures and WILL expand the cases in strange ways.

The easiest way to check for these is to order a "cartridge gauge" from Midway or Dillon. You drop the reloaded cartridge into the gauge and if it will enter the gauge all the way under it's own weight, then you'll have no issue firing it in any 9mm gun.

Hope this helps!

 

[firstg19]

Beezly,

the area I'm referring to is slightly above p1 in the link above.

 

[helg]

helg, are you saying that your brass does not expand at the base?

P1 diameter does not change after firing. On my new FC brass and at least 10x fired one the diameter is .385". As I stated above, at P1 the brass is solid. It is not just thick walls. If you cut the brass at P1, you will see full cross-section of the brass less primer hole. Sizing die never hugs the brass at the P1.

P1, however, is not always the largest diameter of a fired brass. The maximum diameter of the above FC brass, which has been fired from one of my loose 9mm chambers, is .394", and this is about .1" above the P1.

BTW, I have found that preventing that diameter from being shrinked by sizing die increases accuracy of the rounds from the loose chamber. The rounds do not chamber in other 9mm guns. Also, I had to trick to overcome .357" barrel (in 9mm!), loose chamber at the neck part of the shell, and tight bullet seating within incompletely sized shell. The results have been excellent though. At 10yds five bullets make a single hole in paper, from the barrel that gives over an inch at 10 with factory ammo.

 

[firstg19]

helg,

I went back and measured point p1 exactly with the sharp parts of the calipers and i get .385 for both the fired and non-fired brass of the same brand (winchester). when i use the flat wider part of the calipers to measure the p1 area I get .388 on the fired brass and .385 on the unfired round, so the part that is not resizing is slightly above p1. i understand p1 should not change once fired (and from what i measured it is not), but the part slightly above p1 does, and what i am trying to find out is a .388 from a .385 in winchester white box 9mm 115grain fmj a normal increase?...or does my glock increase this to much to fit in a match chamber

 

[JCisHe]

My Glock 17 chambers the rounds to the same depth as my other pistol and there is no issue reloading any of the brass.

From what I understand it is only the .40's that you have to worry about.

 

[helg]

is a .388 from a .385 in winchester white box 9mm 115grain fmj a normal increase?...

Fired brass may become larger than maximum dimensions, which are pictured in the wikipedia article above. The brass has to fit the dimensions after sizing die to become usable in any barrel.

The easiest way to check whether it fits is to use "max cartridge gage" for the caliber. Midwayusa has the gages by Lyman and Wilson.

You may check whether the sized shell fits the dimensions without the gage, using only your caliper. You need to do some math though.

Find the largest diameter of the brass between P1 and the neck, and measure distance from P1 to the point, where the largest diameter appears. The use math to figure out whether the max diameter fits inside the max cartridge dimensions from the picture. 9mm case is tapered, and diameter gradually decreases from p1 to case neck.

For example, the maximum diameter of the shell is .388", and it appears at .1" above P1 plane. Max dimensions of the cartridge, according to the picture are .390" (9.93mm) at P1, and .380" (9.65mm) at the neck, which is .637" (16.17mm=19.15-2.98) apart from P1.

See, max diameter shrinks by .010" (=.390"-380") through .637" from p1 to neck. Therefore, the diameter at .1" from p1 should be no more than

.390 - (.010*.1/.637) = .390" - .0015" = .3885".

See, the measured diameter is .388", and max diameter at the point is .3885". The bulge at the brass still fits into max dimension, but is pretty close to the max. Note, if the max diameter appears not at .1" from p1, which we assumed in the calculations, but higher, say, at .2", the brass no longer fits into max dimensions, which are defined by standard, and may not fit any barren for the caliber. You can verify this by making calucations similar to the above.

You decide what is easier for you: wait for cartridge gage or go through the math.

 

[Walkalong]

I just grabbed a handful of range brass from the last batch I picked up. None of them looked bulged. Only two or three showed visible expansion. I have loaded brass that looks worse for sure. 95% of that other brass that looked bulged, and which I did not measure before sizing, all sized to fit my case gauge just fine. If a case is obviously bulged more than normal it gets tossed in the scrap can. This brass looked really good.

Just because you can see some "bulge" or expansion, doesn't mean the case is no good. With experience, the overly bulged cases will be obvious, and those on the borderline will get your attention as well.

I measured the fattest point, just above the web, where expansion happens, and where you will see the bulge sometimes.

.3915, .3875, .388, .390, .3885, .3895, .388, .3885, .389, .388, .388

These pieces of brass look really good expansion wise. There won't be any problem with any of them.

 

[243winxb]

helg has it correct. See drawing of brass here. http://www.stevespages.com/page8d.htm RC made this photo showing the web area and wall thickness. I do not load 9mm.

 

[android]

Hello,

For those of you who have 9mm in other guns other than glocks, what does the base on your fired brass measure.

right above the extractor groove .385
slightly above that from .388 - .391

That's some WWB ammo I shot last week from an HK P30L.

 

[firstg19]

Thanks android, so what I am thinking is that the "do not reload brass fired in ANY glock" does not make sense. I understand the concern for not firing .40 s&w, due to the buldge, but the 9mm appears to not expand the brass any more than other 9mm handguns. Looking at the expansion of the brass seems a littler more logical to me than just taking people's opinions who say "ive fired 1000's of reloaded glock rounds and never had a problem"

 

[rcmodel]

SAAMI Max size of a 9mm case when measured at the head right in front of the rim groove is .391". Manufacturing tolerances make most of it smaller.

As already mentioned, the head itself does not expand after firing.
If it did, you have over 70,000 PSI, and a blown-up gun.
And if the head did expand a lower normal pressure, the primer pockets would be loose after the first firing.

Whoever started the "don't reload Glock brass" is full of bovine fertilizer up to his brown eyes.
On the otherhand, it does make for more free range brass pick-up's for those who know better.

rc

 

[Steve C]

they told me that it is not safe to fire any caliber glock brass in any gun due to the loose glock

There is no issue in using brass from a 9mm Glock as in the 9mm the barrel supports the case as well as any other manufacturers gun. The issue with overly expanded brass from chambers that do not completely support the case is specific to the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP. So go ahead and use Glock 9mm cases as you would any other.

Being a polygonal rifled barrel the standard Glock barrel doesn't play well with lead bullets. It will accumulate lead reapidly and looking down the barrel doesn't show the leading but you can see it at an oblique angle. If you want to shoot lead a conventional rifled barrel like the one you are getting from Lone Wolf is the way to go. For jacketed bullets the polygonal barrel has some advantages of delivering more velocity and very good accuracy.