9mm Load data for 115 Gr Coated Lead Round Nose

[Harriw]

Hi folks,

I love shooting RMR's "MPR" jacketed HP bullets in 9mm. But they have their hands full trying to keep up with a huge backlog at the moment, so I thought I might let my stash of MPR's sit on the shelf for a while and try shooting some coated cast bullets for a change instead. they're quite a bit cheaper, and much more available for now so why not give it a try?

Lots of options out there, but I went with "DG Bullets": https://dgbullets.com/ They seemed to have the best price of any I could find that could actually have inventory any time soon. I ordered a few thousand, which showed up at my door a week later - pretty impressive turn-around time for these days. Here's the bullet I'm starting off with: https://dgbullets.com/product/9mm-115/

Anyway, I'm looking for some opinions on load data for these. I'd like to try W231 (at least initially). Hodgdon's site gives the following:

115 gr LRN W231/HP-38 .356" 1.100" Start 4.3 gr (1079 fps) 28,400 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1135 fps) 32,000 CUP

However, in order to plunk in my CZ barrel comfortably I have to seat these down to 1.075-1.080." Meanwhile, My Lyman's 50th provides the following datapoints for 120 Gr. cast bullets:



My DG bullets have no lube grooves or anything - just your typical round-nose form factor. But the significantly lower powder charges shown for these two bullets are giving me pause... The 4.1gr. Max for the bullet on the left is less than the starting charge Hodgdon is calling for. And my AOL is smack in between these two. I also noticed that Hodgdon ran the pressure up higher than Lyman did too, so that's part of the difference. Hodgon measured 32000 CUP at their max charge, while Lyman stopped at around 30k for each of their bullets.

Seems to me this Lyman data might be a bit light... but I do believe I should back off on the Hodgdon data bit due to my shorter AOL. Does anybody else have some more 115gr. cast lead data for W231 that might help shed some light on this?

Just from what I'm seeing here, I'm thinking of testing something like a 3.4 gr starting charge, and working up to 4.4 gr max? That sound reasonable?

Thanks a lot!

 

[noylj]

Safety first--start at lowest start load and work up.
I show 3.8gn start load with max load ranging from 4.3-5.0gn.

 

[Zendude]

It’s good to first check with the bullet manufacturer to see what they recommend.

Regarding the LRN load data from Hodgdon - From the load data I’ve seen, the charge weight for pistol cartridge LRN bullets without numerous lube grooves and about the same shape as FMJ is not much different than FMJ bullet max loads at the same OAL. The DG bullet doesn’t have lube grooves. My Hornady manual shows 4.7 gr of 231 as the max load for 115 gr FMJ at 1.100 OAL. So, to me it makes sense that the Hodgdon max charge weight for 115 gr LRN (assuming no lube grooves) is 4.8 gr. at the same 1.100 OAL.

A starting load of about 4.0 grains of 231at 1.100 OAL would seem reasonable. Of course, if you need a shorter OAL to plunk, reduce the charge weight accordingly.

 

[Harriw]

Thanks guys,

Noylj - I agree with safety first and working your way up. It's just that the starting charge I see from the powder manufacturer is higher than the MAX charge listed for what I thought would be a similar bullet type in the Lyman 50th.

Zendude - I'll check with DG Bullets and see what they say. I see the same 4.7 gr max in the Hornady 10th as well. I didn't realize the "FMJ-shaped" cast lead would have larger charges than profiles with multiple lube grooves, but that would certainly help explain it.

Thanks!

 

[noylj]

Thanks guys,

Noylj - I agree with safety first and working your way up. It's just that the starting charge I see from the powder manufacturer is higher than the MAX charge listed for what I thought would be a similar bullet type in the Lyman 50th.

Zendude - I'll check with DG Bullets and see what they say. I see the same 4.7 gr max in the Hornady 10th as well. I didn't realize the "FMJ-shaped" cast lead would have larger charges than profiles with multiple lube grooves, but that would certainly help explain it.

Thanks!

Start at lowest start load from multiple sources. Given two manuals, you’ll find variations. It is all in the mix of components (and lot numbers) and you don’t know how your mix will work.

 

[lordpaxman]

I love shooting RMR's "MPR" jacketed HP bullets in 9mm.

What are loading these with and to what COL? Lead data is roughly 90% FMJ data of the same weight/shape bullet. I try to stay with published data, but like you sometimes find you need to make an educated guess. If you did an existing 231 load workup for your RMRs, and your seating depth for the RMR vs DG is about the same, you should be ok using 90% of that. I’d also verify that 90% number with the above comments and data. Your 3.4gr starting charge should get the bullet out of the barrel, but I suspect that would be a very light load. Good luck.

 

[nevadabob]

I like the load data from Eggleston Bullets:
https://www.egglestonmunitions.com/load-data.html

 

[Harriw]

What are loading these with and to what COL? Lead data is roughly 90% FMJ data of the same weight/shape bullet. I try to stay with published data, but like you sometimes find you need to make an educated guess. If you did an existing 231 load workup for your RMRs, and your seating depth for the RMR vs DG is about the same, you should be ok using 90% of that. I’d also verify that 90% number with the above comments and data. Your 3.4gr starting charge should get the bullet out of the barrel, but I suspect that would be a very light load. Good luck.

Well, the COAL comparison is a bit apples-to-oranges since the RMR MPR is a Hollow-Point, but I'm loading them at 1.055" with a 4.6 gr Charge of W231. I based that load on Hornady data though, which uses the same charge weights for both their HP and FMJ 115 gr. projectiles. I'm extrapolating here, but the COAL Hornady calls for with their FMJ round in that data is also 1.100".

I did test up to 4.7 gr of W231 (Hornady's listed max load) which ran just fine in this same gun. I just backed off a tenth from the max I tested to provide some safety margin. The 4.4 gr. charge from that ladder test performed nicely as well so there was no down-side to backing off a bit. Hornady data does tend to be fairly conservative though, and that 4.7 gr. max does appear to be a few tenths lower than a lot of other data for similar 115 gr. FMJ. Even so, backing off 90% from the 4.7gr. would put me at about 4.2 gr.

I can certainly start at the 2.9/3.0 gr minimums I see from the Lyman manual and work up slowly. Looks like I should be fine going up to 4.2 gr. at least. I don't have a chronograph unfortunately, but I can see how the recoil feels at that point and determine whether to continue on at that point to 4.4 or 4.6 gr. I don't think I feel comfortable going all the way up to Hodgdon's 4.8 gr. Max with the shorter COAL I'm using.

Thanks a lot!

 

[peeplwtchr]

I had this issue with coated bullets too. They needed to be seated far lower to fit in the chamber of my Canik, than plated bullets. I read that CZs don't like them either. I don't feel comfortable using them, I want a universal plinking load for all my pistols. I will only buy plated or FMJ now. Plus I noticed the coating can be damaged by a .002 crimp, not so with plated. Not worth saving 3 cents a bullet to me.

 

[mdi]

Safety first--start at lowest start load and work up.
I show 3.8gn start load with max load ranging from 4.3-5.0gn.

100% true! No one is going to call you a sissy nor will anything harm your gun if you start with the lowest recommended charge. If you are working in "unknown territory" for you, compare data in your manuals and start there (as posted many, many times; for legitimate reasons most manuals will not be exactly the same with listed data). Lod up a few, a couple magazines full, and try them. I would think the only "bad" thing to happen with a low starting load is poor cycling (I have used the lowest starting load for my 9mm pistols and have never had a squib)...

 

[noylj]

Even as little as 1gn of any Pistol powder will get the bullet out of the barrel. A squib in a standard handgun is always a lack of powder or failure to ignite powder, which is prevented by looking in every charged case or using an RCBS Lock-Out die.

 

[lordpaxman]

Well, the COAL comparison is a bit apples-to-oranges since the RMR MPR is a Hollow-Point, but I'm loading them at 1.055" with a 4.6 gr Charge of W231.

Right, but, the point is you’re loading the RMR at 1.055, and want to load the DG at 1.080. Measure both bullet’s OAL, and see how close your seating depth is, not the COL. If the seating depth is similar, your 4.4gr for the RMR would be about a 4gr for the DG. You didn’t mention what you started that ladder at, but if it were me, I’d start at 90% of it. As mentioned, it doesn’t take much to get the bullet out of the barrel, especially a coated one, but in these times I wouldn’t waste a lot of primers on too many points in the ladder.

 

[Harriw]

Right, but, the point is you’re loading the RMR at 1.055, and want to load the DG at 1.080. Measure both bullet’s OAL, and see how close your seating depth is, not the COL. If the seating depth is similar, your 4.4gr for the RMR would be about a 4gr for the DG. You didn’t mention what you started that ladder at, but if it were me, I’d start at 90% of it. As mentioned, it doesn’t take much to get the bullet out of the barrel, especially a coated one, but in these times I wouldn’t waste a lot of primers on too many points in the ladder.

Ahhh - as in check to see if the internal case volume is similar. Sorry - I've done that with same form-factor bullets (i.e. RMR's MPR vs. load data for Hornady's XTP's), but didn't think to do that with an HP vs. a LRN. I'll measure some bullets and check and see if the seating depths are similar.

Thanks!

 

[Harriw]

So I did some measuring yesterday. I'll spare you all the raw data and spreadsheet copy/paste, but the end result is that these DG Bullets will definitely be seated a bit deeper than what I've loaded in the past. Specifically in relation to my RMR 115 Gr. MPR-HP loads with W231, the seating depth will be about 0.017" deeper. So I do indeed need to take that into consideration.

I loaded up a ladder tonight at 3.0, 3.5, 3.9, 4.0, and 4.1 grains. If those 3.9/4.0/4.1's still feel like mouse farts then I'll go a bit higher, but I'll do so in .1 gr. increments to play it safe.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Walkalong]

When you start low always make sure all the bullets exit the barrel before firing another round. You're likely fine, but it pays to always check.

An interesting experiment in how low can you go. I have stuck bullets in barrels with light starting charges and testing them powder forward in things like .38 Spl etc.