9mm Luger 115 gr, copper plated w/ CFE Pistol

[Ironwill1406]

Greetings All,

Looking for a little advice on a 9mm recipe.

I recently purchased several 9mm bullets at 115 gr, 124 and 147 all round nose copper plated from xtreme.

I am using CFE pistol.

Hogdon website shows me load data for 124 and 147 but not for 115.

A few other searches produced commonality akin to 5.2-5.6 grains and an OAL 1.155.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[LiveLife]

9mm ... CFE pistol ... 115 gr, 124 and 147 all round nose copper plated from xtreme ... Hogdon website shows me load data for 124 and 147 but not for 115

With regular plated bullets rated to around 1200 fps, I reference lead load data. With thicker plated bullets rated to 1500 fps, I reference jacketed load data. It's been my experience that regular plated bullets tend to lose accuracy at higher than mid-range jacketed load data.

Before you conduct your powder work up, you first need to determine the max OAL using your barrel and dummy rounds (No powder, No primer - Measure some resized cases and use shorter ones) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/

Then determine the working OAL by feeding the dummy rounds at max OAL from the magazine and incrementally decrease the OAL by .005" until they feed/chamber reliably. Now using the max working OAL, you can conduct the powder work up (And once you determine the most accurate powder charge, you can incrementally decrease the OAL by .005" to see if accuracy improves) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

Hodgdon has load data for 115 gr Lead RN - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 115 gr Lead RN CFE Pistol COL 1.100" Start 4.9 gr (1,124 fps) - Max 5.4 gr (1,209 fps)

And Speer has load data for 115 gr TMJ which is thicker plated RN that can be pushed to jacketed load data - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 115 gr TMJ RN CFE Pistol OAL 1.135" Start 5.1 gr (1094 fps) - Max 5.7 gr (1188 fps)

115 gr xtreme ... searches produced ... 5.2-5.6 grains and an OAL 1.155 ... Any thoughts or advice?

X-Treme 115 gr RN with working OAL of 1.169" will work with most barrels but I usually load 115 gr RN profile bullets to 1.130"-1.135" OAL (OAL variance typical of many brand bullet nose profile consistency) as when I conducted 1.150"-1.160" vs 1.130"-1.135" OAL comparison test, shorter OAL produced greater accuracy (And I even use shorter 1.110"-1.115" if I want more accuracy).

If your X-Treme bullets are regular plated 115 gr RN rated to 1200 fps, I suggest referencing Hodgdon lead load data for your initial powder work up and around 1.130"-1.135" OAL unless your barrel requires shorter OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-11465109

And if your accuracy trend improves towards 5.4 gr, you can always test higher powder charges.

 

[Ironwill1406]

Thank you LiveLife!!!!

 

[12Bravo20]

I have been using Hodgdon's lead round nose data for 115 grain plated bullets for years with good results. I use Hodgdon Universal though. For Universal, Hodgdon states that the start load is 4.0 grains and max 4.5 grains, 4.2 grains of Universal has worked well for 115 grain plated bullets in all my 9mm guns from the Kel-Tec PF9 and Sig P938 to my full size 1911 and AR pistol with 10.5" barrel.

As always, work your way up from the start load. I'm sure that a load of CFE in the middle of the start/max range for 115Gr lead round nose will work well for you.

 

[Ironwill1406]

With regular plated bullets rated to around 1200 fps, I reference lead load data. With thicker plated bullets rated to 1500 fps, I reference jacketed load data. It's been my experience that regular plated bullets tend to lose accuracy at higher than mid-range jacketed load data.

Before you conduct your powder work up, you first need to determine the max OAL using your barrel and dummy rounds (No powder, No primer - Measure some resized cases and use shorter ones) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/



Then determine the working OAL by feeding the dummy rounds at max OAL from the magazine and incrementally decrease the OAL by .005" until they feed/chamber reliably. Now using the max working OAL, you can conduct the powder work up (And once you determine the most accurate powder charge, you can incrementally decrease the OAL by .005" to see if accuracy improves) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

Hodgdon has load data for 115 gr Lead RN - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 115 gr Lead RN CFE Pistol COL 1.100" Start 4.9 gr (1,124 fps) - Max 5.4 gr (1,209 fps)

And Speer has load data for 115 gr TMJ which is thicker plated RN that can be pushed to jacketed load data - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 115 gr TMJ RN CFE Pistol OAL 1.135" Start 5.1 gr (1094 fps) - Max 5.7 gr (1188 fps)

X-Treme 115 gr RN with working OAL of 1.169" will work with most barrels but I usually load 115 gr RN profile bullets to 1.130"-1.135" OAL (OAL variance typical of many brand bullet nose profile consistency) as when I conducted 1.150"-1.160" vs 1.130"-1.135" OAL comparison test, shorter OAL produced greater accuracy (And I even use shorter 1.110"-1.115" if I want more accuracy).

If your X-Treme bullets are regular plated 115 gr RN rated to 1200 fps, I suggest referencing Hodgdon lead load data for your initial powder work up and around 1.130"-1.135" OAL unless your barrel requires shorter OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-11465109

And if your accuracy trend improves towards 5.4 gr, you can always test higher powder charges.

Had some great success today. Was using OAL of 1.15 and they just barely fit in my walther clip. 5.2 charges were good. 5.4 were better. Can easily dial this back to 1.13. Great news!

 

[LiveLife]

Had some great success today. Was using OAL of 1.15 and they just barely fit in my walther clip. 5.2 charges were good. 5.4 were better. Can easily dial this back to 1.13. Great news!

Great to hear.

You can load some at 1.150" and some at 1.130" using 5.4 gr and see which produces smaller groups next.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have always been very conservative when reloading and would usually stay real close to the starting charge. I recently switched from plated 115Gr bullets to TMJ 115Gr bullets and of course started over with my charge. The different reloading manuals I have and Hodgdon website all state 4.5 grains start and 5.0 grains max for 115Gr FMJ. I decided to try different charges. I loaded a few with 4.5 grains and a few with 4.7 grains. The 4.7 grain loads were a bit more accurate at 10 yards for me. I am using Hodgdon Universal so my charge weights will be different the the OP that is using CFE.

 

[LiveLife]

TMJ 115Gr bullets ... loaded a few with 4.5 grains and a few with 4.7 grains. The 4.7 grain loads were a bit more accurate ... using ... Universal

Hodgdon website ... state 4.5 grains start and 5.0 grains max for 115Gr FMJ

Actually Hodgdon website shows 4.5/5.0 gr start/max for 115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP, not FMJ (and 4.3/4.9 gr start/max for 125 gr Sierra FMJ) - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP Universal COL 1.125" Start 4.5 gr (1,029 fps) - Max 5.0 gr (1,149 fps)

• 9mm 125 gr Sierra FMJ Universal COL 1.090" Start 4.3 gr (1,031 fps) - Max 4.9 gr (1,118 fps)

Speer load data for 124 gr Speer TMJ does show 4.5/5.0 gr start/max. You are using a TMJ bullet (which is a thick plated RN bullet that can be driven to jacketed load data), you should reference Speer load data for TMJ.

• 9mm 115 gr Speer TMJ Universal OAL 1.135" Start 4.7 gr (1046 fps) - Max 5.3 gr (1172 fps) - - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ Universal OAL 1.135" Start 4.5 gr (993 fps) - Max 5.0 gr (1089 fps) - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

Since 4.7 gr is start charge for 115 gr TMJ, your accuracy should improve as you work up higher powder charges.

 

[12Bravo20]

Actually Hodgdon website states 4.5/5.0 gr start/max for 115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP, not FMJ and 4.3/4.9 gr start/max for 125 gr Sierra FMJ - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP Universal COL 1.125" Start 4.5 gr (1,029 fps) - Max 5.0 gr (1,149 fps)

• 9mm 125 gr Sierra FMJ Universal COL 1.090" Start 4.3 gr (1,031 fps) - Max 4.9 gr (1,118 fps)

You are using a TMJ bullet (which is a thick plated RN bullet that can be driven to jacketed load data), you should reference Speer load data for TMJ - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 115 gr Speer TMJ Universal OAL 1.135" Start 4.7 gr (1046 fps) - Max 5.3 gr (1172 fps)

Since 4.7 gr is start charge, your accuracy should improve as you work up higher powder charges.

I also used the data from my Lee reloading manual which stated 4.5Gr start and 5.0Gr max for 115 FMJ. Yes the Speer data is higher on both GD and TMJ (same load data for both). I will always err on the side of caution when reloading and I used the Hodgdon and Lee data for a starting point. And with any change, I start by just loading and shooting 1 round in the gun. I loaded 6 rounds at 4.5Gr and 5 at 4.7Gr.

 

[Mike44]

I have loaded XTreme 115 gr. plated FMJ with 5.3 gr. CFEPistol using COL 1.130". These have worked fine for me in a G19, S&W Shield, and Walther PPQ. I did not own a chrono when I was shooting these so I don't know velocity (I have switched to RMR 115 inhouse FMJ). Function was 100% and cases were not too sooty. Higher loads felt snappy to me. Lower loads were sooty. Start low and work up.

 

[LiveLife]

I also used the data from my Lee reloading manual which stated 4.5Gr start and 5.0Gr max for 115 FMJ

Lee does not conduct their own pressure testing rather compile older test data from other published sources. I don't see any problem referencing Lee load data when no recent/current published load data is available but for 115 gr Speer TMJ, you have current published load data available straight from Speer.

So why not reference Speer load data instead of using Lee load data?

And Universal, like Unique, is relatively slower burning powder (compared to faster burning W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol) that tends to produce more efficient powder burn and greater accuracy at mid to higher range load data. If you want a lighter target load at lower charges, faster powders are better suited but with various 115 gr FMJ/RN plated bullets I found I needed to push higher than mid-range W231/HP-38 load data to reliably cycle the slides of my Glocks before producing accuracy at high to near max load data.

You didn't mention OAL used for your test rounds and if you are using longer than 1.135" OAL, chances are 4.8 gr will likely produce greater accuracy than 4.7 gr. (And if using shorter OAL than published 1.135", I would reduce start/max charges by .2-.3 gr for my powder work up)

For your next range test, how about testing 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 gr at 1.135" and see if they shoot better?

 

[12Bravo20]

Lee does not conduct their own pressure testing rather compile older test data from other published sources. I don't see any problem referencing Lee load data when no recent/current published load data is available but for 115 gr Speer TMJ, you have current published load data available straight from Speer.

So why not reference Speer load data instead of using Lee load data?

And Universal, like Unique, is relatively slower burning powder (compared to faster burning W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol) that tends to produce more efficient powder burn and greater accuracy at mid to higher range load data. If you want a lighter target load at lower charges, faster powders are better suited but with various 115 gr FMJ/RN plated bullets I found I needed to push higher than mid-range W231/HP-38 load data to reliably cycle the slides of my Glocks before producing accuracy at high to near max load data.

You didn't mention OAL used for your test rounds and if you are using longer than 1.135" OAL, chances are 4.8 gr will likely produce greater accuracy than 4.7 gr. (And if using shorter OAL than published 1.135", I would reduce start/max charges by .2-.3 gr for my powder work up)

For your next range test, how about testing 4.8, 4.9 and 5.0 gr at 1.135" and see if they shoot better?

My OAL is set at 1.150" and I am using a Lee Auto drum which by the charts should be throwing 4.8Gr of Universal. The Auto Drum consistently throws 4.7Gr with a few at 4.8Gr. I am not getting any charges below 4.7 or higher than 4.8. The load has been plenty accurate out of my Glock 19, 9mm 1911 and my 10.5" AR pistol. Also not getting sooty cases either which Universal (and Unique) are known for.

Most important is that my loads are well within established/published load data for the powder and bullet I am using. I also get good accuracy with them. I can keep a magazine load out of my G19 all in the center circle on an 8' Caldwell Orange Peel target at 10 yards. And I get good accuracy out of my 10.5" AR pistol at 25 yards too.

 

[LiveLife]

My OAL is set at 1.150" and I am using a Lee Auto drum ... not getting any charges below 4.7 or higher than 4.8.

Are you experiencing any bullet setback at 1.150"?

I have done 1.150"-1.160" OAL vs 1.130"-1.135" OAL with different powders using mid to high range load data and shorter OAL produced greater accuracy.

If your powder drops are around 4.7-4.8 gr consistently, I would keep that powder charge and test shorter 1.130"-1.135" OAL and see if group size decreases compared to 1.150".

My bet is it is likely.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have not had any bullet setback. Though I am one of the few that actually likes and uses the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I do a plunk test before and after using the Lee FCD to check that I am not over crimping. I have stayed with 1.150" OAL since that works in all of my firearms chambered in 9mm from my Kel-Tec PF9, Sig P938, Star Firestar, 9mm 1911, several Glocks, and my 9mm AR pistol. I could play with the OAL but I also want to make sure that my loads feed and function in all of my 9mm guns.

 

[12Bravo20]

Greetings All,

Looking for a little advice on a 9mm recipe.

I recently purchased several 9mm bullets at 115 gr, 124 and 147 all round nose copper plated from xtreme.

I am using CFE pistol.

Hogdon website shows me load data for 124 and 147 but not for 115.

A few other searches produced commonality akin to 5.2-5.6 grains and an OAL 1.155.

Any thoughts or advice?

I apologize for the drift in your thread.

When it comes to loading plated bullets - if there is not any specific data for plated bullets, the safest bet is to use data for lead round nose bullets

Information from Hodgdon's website

115Gr lead round nose: Start - 4.9Gr Max - 5.4Gr
124Gr Berry's Hollow Base, round nose plated: Start - 4.9Gr Max - 5.5Gr
Note that there is a difference in OAL between the regular Berrys plated bullets and their hollow base bullets.

The load data for 147Gr bullets on Hodgdon's site is for Hornady XTP I can't comment on where to start with that info versus plated bullets

I did check the Speer website and they list load data for the 147Gr Gold Dot and 147Gr TMJ bullets.
CFE 147Gr: Start - 4.1Gr Max - 4.6Gr

Speer is usually higher by a few tenths of a grain versus other reloading sources.