9mm not passing plunk test but chambers and extracts just fine. Tearing my hair out!!!

[bhhacker]

I have been reloading for a while on a single stage press but have just upgraded to a lee classic turret press. I am using unknown fired brass from the range that is a mix of everything. I have the 3 set of lee dies for 9mm that im using. I am using .355 diameter 125 grain fmjs and loading to an OAL of 1.075

I have made like 50 dummy rounds and none of them have passed the plunk test using my 5th gen glock 19. When loaded in a magazine and slide released most will go into home and extract just fine. I have not attempted to shoot any of these yet seeing as if i cant pass a simple test like this, i dont want to risk it.

I am tearing my hair out fiddling with the crimp and belling. Most videos im seeing on how to set the crimp/bullet seating they are using a successful 9mm cartridge to fit it to...So far i have not been able to get a good one to duplicate at a later time.

I am assuming im too ticked off right now to see what im doing wrong and too close to the problem, going to head to bed and calm down. If you guys could tell me what im doing wrong that would be great. Pointers on how to set the bell and crimp without using a known good cartridge would be nice too.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Are you using an actual seating depth tool, or your barrel? And do factory cartridges plunk OK?

OK on re-reading I see you're using the barrel. If factory loads chamber OK then your case length must be excessive... which is odd for a straight wall case, as they don't stretch much... or it's a bullet issue. Are you using lead pills? Some cast bullet designs (like the H&G 68) can headspace on the front driving band if not seated deeply enough.

If factory loads fail too then there's an issue with your chamber (maybe it just needs a good scrub).

 

[bhhacker]

Just my barrel. Im using jacketed bullets. I gave up on using lead a long time ago

Factory loads plunk just fine. I wish it was that easy!

 

[LiveLife]

355 diameter 125 grain fmjs and loading to an OAL of 1.075

You are likely seating bullets too deep and thicker case wall where bullet base is seated to are bulging the case neck and rubbing against the chamber wall. I would also check the taper crimp at case mouth to ensure it is .377" to make sure flare was taken back.

If resized brass freely chamber and fall out, try increasing the OAL so bullet base bulges less from thinner case wall closer to case mouth.

From recent myth busting thread we determined .200" below case mouth case wall thickness ranged from .011" to .014" and .100" below case mouth case wall thckness ranged from .010" to .013" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-bullet-setback.830072/page-3#post-10715550

Try seating bullets longer to 1.100" and if they won't fully chamber, try 1.110", 1.120" then 1.130" etc.

 

[Bartojc]

I have been reloading for a while on a single stage press but have just upgraded to a lee classic turret press. I am using unknown fired brass from the range that is a mix of everything. I have the 3 set of lee dies for 9mm that im using. I am using .355 diameter 125 grain fmjs and loading to an OAL of 1.075

I have made like 50 dummy rounds and none of them have passed the plunk test using my 5th gen glock 19. When loaded in a magazine and slide released most will go into home and extract just fine. I have not attempted to shoot any of these yet seeing as if i cant pass a simple test like this, i dont want to risk it.

I am tearing my hair out fiddling with the crimp and belling. Most videos im seeing on how to set the crimp/bullet seating they are using a successful 9mm cartridge to fit it to...So far i have not been able to get a good one to duplicate at a later time.

I am assuming im too ticked off right now to see what im doing wrong and too close to the problem, going to head to bed and calm down. If you guys could tell me what im doing wrong that would be great. Pointers on how to set the bell and crimp without using a known good cartridge would be nice too.

I just went through a similar situation except I was trying to get a round to chamber for 3 different pistols. I went from 115 to a 125 jacketed bullet.
Are you using a separate crimp dies or a Lee FCD ? I would do as BDS suggested and try to seat a little longer. In the end what worked for me was resetting my crimp die and the issue went away. My crimp is .377.

-Jeff

 

[higgite]

I have been reloading for a while on a single stage press but have just upgraded to a lee classic turret press. I am using unknown fired brass from the range that is a mix of everything. I have the 3 set of lee dies for 9mm that im using. I am using .355 diameter 125 grain fmjs and loading to an OAL of 1.075

I suggest that you read and heed bds' advice. 1.075 COL seems awfully short for 125gr FMJ. Where did you get that COL from? Did you load the same bullet and brass at the same COL successfully on the single stage press?

 

[Rule3]

What EXACT FMJ bullet are you using?? Is it a round nose, JP, Flat nose??
Seat the bullet a little long, "crimp" just enough to remove the flair drop it in the barrel. Does it plunk in and fall out? if not seat a little shorter etc etc until it does.
Measure "crimp" at the case moth and bullet, should be around .375 give or take a "hair"

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

Are you using a taper or roll crimp? I use the Lee classic turret, with a Lee 4 die set, I seat the bullet and TAPER crimp in a separate operation. Just finished a bunch of 9 mm and they all passed the plunk. A while back I loaded some small batches of different calibers on the classic turret as if it were a single stage. I tweaked all the dies in the process and it helped the looks and function of the finished product.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

 

[Toprudder]

At this point you don't have any idea exactly where the problem is - bullet profile or seating depth, or possible case bulge, or....

Use a marker to paint the bullet and case completely, drop it into the barrel several times, then look for where the ink has been wiped away. (Optionally, you can use a candle to add soot to the case/bullet, soot will wipe off easier).

 

[fxvr5]

First, determine where they are sticking. The method is explained here: http://www.shootingtimes.com/reloading/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/

 

[mdi]

MEASURE! Any time there is a fit problem measure. For a cartridge to pass the plunk test it must be smaller than the chamber so your reloads are too big somewhere. I would say they are not much too large since your gun's bolt will force them in the chamber and extract them. Inspect the rounds you chambered in your gun and see if there is any indication of where the cartridge hits the chamber ID...

 

[bhhacker]

Hopefully ill have answered everyones questions so far....
I am using the 3 die set, so i am not using the Full resize die, just the bullet seat and roll crimp
After resizing it, it passes the plunk test.

These measurements are all with an empty case, bullet not installed:
After resizing the brass, the mouth of the case measures .371
After flaring it, the mouth measures .384
after using the crimp .376 1/2

The bullet i am using is a new bullet to me as well, it is not an FMJ, but a speer 125 grain .355 TMJ FN
I got the load data using Lymans 48th edition
I tried loading it to an OAL of 1.10, 1.20, 1.30 and still no luck. If anything, during making all these measurements the case is sticking out further now, and i dont feel comfortable attempting to chamber them because i know they are going to get stuck.


Can I resize brass, flare, then crimp without butting a bullet in, and then plunk test to see if flare has gone back down? Are all these measurements supposed to be with a bullet in there or just the brass?

 

[drband]

You will need to seat and crimp a bullet to get useful data.

 

[hdwhit]

bhhacker wrote:
9mm not passing plunk test but chambers and extracts just fine. Tearing my hair out!!!

At the risk of sounding facetious, if the round chambers and extracts just fine, then skip the plunk test.

I have the 3 set of lee dies for 9mm...

The Lee 3-die 9mm set was the only set of Lee dies that disappointed me. By the time I got the "powder-through expander" adjusted to the point where I could seat plated bullets without collapsing the case on every tenth round, the crimp wouldn't completely remove the bell just below the case mouth so it wouldn't "plunk" (although it would go into the somewhat "looser" chamber of my pistol and work just fine).

In the end, I decided that I didn't like working the brass that way and replaced the Lee dies with a 9mm set from RCBS. The RCBS expander was easier for me to adjust properly and I haven't had any problems since making the switch. I still use the Lee sizer and the Lee seating die, I just don't use the Lee expander.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Did you say you are not using the full length sizing die? If yes you really need to fully resize the cases. Also, like said above, try not seating the bullet so deeply. Why are you seating so deep anyway? Most of my 9mm ammo has an OAL of between 1.115" and 1 .125" .

 

[Rule3]

Are you sure of the bullet. ??
125 or 124 grain?? My Speer #14 doesn't list that. What is the part number??

"The bullet i am using is a new bullet to me as well, it is not an FMJ, but a speer 125 grain .355 TMJ FN"

is it this?

https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/...nking-bullets/355/355-124-tmj-bullet-value-pk

It should be similar to a 124 gr GDHP and the OAL for that is 1.120

FLAT nose bullets seat shorter than ROUND nose.

OR is it this 357 SIG BULLET!!
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...per-355-diameter-125-grain-total-metal-jacket

 

[bhhacker]

Did you say you are not using the full length sizing die? If yes you really need to fully resize the cases. Also, like said above, try not seating the bullet so deeply. Why are you seating so deep anyway? Most of my 9mm ammo has an OAL of between 1.115" and 1 .125" .

I am using the full length resizing die.

Are you sure of the bullet. ??
125 or 124 grain?? My Speer #14 doesn't list that. What is the part number??

"The bullet i am using is a new bullet to me as well, it is not an FMJ, but a speer 125 grain .355 TMJ FN"

is it this?

https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/...nking-bullets/355/355-124-tmj-bullet-value-pk

It should be similar to a 124 gr GDHP and the OAL for that is 1.120

FLAT nose bullets seat shorter than ROUND nose.

OR is it this 357 SIG BULLET!!
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2...per-355-diameter-125-grain-total-metal-jacket

It is the 125grain .357 sig bullet. From My research online I should be able to use it right? Same diameter so it should work?

 

[Rule3]

I am using the full length resizing die.





It is the 125grain .357 sig bullet. From My research online I should be able to use it right? Same diameter so it should work?

Probably. I do not know if the Sig bullets are a tad longer. Regardless I believe your OAL is to long. Shorten it( seat deeper)
If you are using RN load data it is too long.(JMO as I am not there)

 

[LiveLife]

speer 125 grain .355 TMJ FN ... It is the 125 grain .357 sig bullet. From My research online I should be able to use it right? Same diameter so it should work?

No .357 Sig bullets tend to have shorter bullet nose and needs to be loaded shorter.

I tried loading it to an OAL of 1.10, 1.20, 1.30 and still no luck. If anything, during making all these measurements the case is sticking out further now

No, 1.200" and 1.300" are too long for 9mm as SAAMI max is 1.169". 124 gr FN bullets typically can load to 1.125" OAL for most barrels.

If your bullet is .357 Sig bullet with shorter nose, try loading your bullets shorter to 1.040".

Make sure your taper crimp is .377" at the case mouth.

The Lee 3-die 9mm set was the only set of Lee dies that disappointed me.

I use Dillon, Lee and RCBS dies to reload various pistol calibers and have happily used Lee dies for 9mm for the past 27 years. In fact, I have several Lee 9mm dies.

For 40S&W, I prefer Lee dies over RCBS dies as Lee sizer will resize further down on case base to smaller OD. Dillon die users often need to push through resize 40S&W brass as their resizer can't resize enough down on case base to fully chamber in their barrels.

Shooting USPSA with factory Glock and tighter Lone Wolf 40S&W barrels, I never needed to push through resize my brass as my Lee sizer would resize brass to fully chamber in tighter Lone Wolf chambers.

 

[LiveLife]

I do not know if the Sig bullets are a tad longer.

Actually shorter bullet length (.579" vs .558" for RMR 124 gr JHP).

But .357 Sig bullets do indeed have longer base/bearing surface to produce greater neck tension for the bottle neck case known for neck tension issue.

When Jake changed 9mm 124 gr JHP profile to be used also with .357 Sig, he shortened the nose tip to increase the bullet base and named it MPR, "Multi Purpose Round" to work with 9mm and .357 Sig.

Comparison picture below shows two bullets with different base lengths and nose profiles. OALs shown are for my Lone Wolf barrel with short leade (as old JHP would pass the plunk test at 1.125" in barrels with longer leade).

 

[Toprudder]

Actually shorter.

.357 Sig bullets do indeed have longer base/bearing surface to produce greater neck tension for the bottle neck case known for neck tension issue.

When Jake changed 9mm 124 gr JHP profile to be used also with .357 Sig, he shortened the nose tip to increase the bullet base and named it MPR, "Multi Purpose Round" to work with 9mm and .357 Sig.

Comparison picture below shows two bullets with different base lengths and nose profiles. OALs shown are for my Lone Wolf barrel with short leade (as old JHP would pass the plunk test at 1.125") and they work fine in my Lone Wolf barrel with tight chamber without case neck bulging issue.

Depending on how much freebore/leade is in his barrel, the MPR may have to be seated shorter to pass the plunk test, which would push the base of the bullet deeper into the case, causing more case bulge.

I still say to mark the case/bullet, see where the ink is rubbed off after chambering, and then you will know.

@fxvr5 gave a good link for the method to use.

 

[LiveLife]

Just to clarify, OP is using Speer 125 gr TMJ .357 Sig bullet (Not RMR 124 gr MPR 9mm JHP which also can be used for .357 Sig).

FYI, RMR 124 gr MPR bullets work fine in my Lone Wolf barrel with tighter chamber even with thicker case wall brass. As shown in the picture, they need to be loaded shorter than typical JHP bullets.

 

[rskent]

I am tearing my hair out fiddling with the crimp and belling. Most videos im seeing on how to set the crimp/bullet seating they are using a successful 9mm cartridge to fit it to...So far i have not been able to get a good one to duplicate at a later time.

I like to bell as little as possible and still be able to set the bullet into the case.

I like to crimp as little as possible and still get the round to chamber. I would not call what I do crimping. I would call it removing the bell. (Unless I am reloading for a revolver.)

I am using the 3 die set, so i am not using the Full resize die, just the bullet seat and roll crimp

I would say that most of your problem is right here. Roll crimping a 9mm is just a bad idea. I am sure there are good reasons for some person to roll crimp a 9mm, but I have no idea what they could possibly be.

 

[LiveLife]

FYI, Lee 9mm dies come with Taper Crimp die.

With .377" taper crimp, it is essentially returning flare back flat on bullet and a tiny hair more.

Since the bullet seating movement with taper crimp movement of case mouth is so slight against each other, seating and crimping in the same step is no problem, even with lead bullets.

Problem may be is if you adjusted the dies with short length case and along comes a long length case.

 

[bhhacker]

I like to bell as little as possible and still be able to set the bullet into the case.

I like to crimp as little as possible and still get the round to chamber. I would not call what I do crimping. I would call it removing the bell. (Unless I am reloading for a revolver.)



I would say that most of your problem is right here. Roll crimping a 9mm is just a bad idea. I am sure there are good reasons for some person to roll crimp a 9mm, but I have no idea what they could possibly be.

I think i was wrong, i am using a taper crimp.






Update:

I have made the following adjustments. ..
belled mouth is .382-.384
crimped mouth is .376-.378

adjusting the bullet seating down, at 1.051 OAL the cartridge passes the plunk test. That seems pretty short. If I shoot these am i going to have to type to you guys one handed about how i shouldnt have?