justin22885
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so? then load them yourself
9mm or .38 super
- Thread starter bme27
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Thank you guys for your advice. The pistols I am looking into getting is a Taurus PT1911 in the .38 super. I have a friend who's brother getting ready to sell this. The 9mm I'm looking at is a M&P. I really like the way it feels, only auto loader that's not in a 1911 platform that feels good in my hand. I guess i could pick up the 1911 and get the conversion to the 9mm. But i don't reload handgun ammo and will not be any time soon.
MachIVshooter
Member
It's not a good idea. the case body will be smaller than .38 Super, and the rim smaller still (by 0.030"), leading to extraction issues. It's also quite a bit of work to fireform and ream the cases, which is a necessary step, as .338 cal is the largest you can stuff in a hacked .223 case otherwise.
Additionally, you'll have a reduced case capacity compared to commercial super brass.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I like the 38 Super and load the 38 Super for a Series 70 1911 Colt I have. As much as I like the cartridge I would likely run with a 9mm to answer your question. Simply because, as many have covered, the wide range of available performance ammunition as well as a wide selection of handguns chambered for 9mm.
Ron
Ron
Jim Watson
Member
With full disclosure, I now think it is time to buy the Plastic M&P.
Sergei Mosin
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The .38 Super is a fine cartridge, but it's typically twice - or more - the price of 9mm ammo and, outside of some specialized applications, doesn't offer any significant advantage over the 9x19. It's really a reloading proposition. This is why I bought a 9mm 1911 instead of a .38 Super.
As for Taurus, with their spotty reputation for QC I wouldn't buy a new one, let alone a used one. Stick with the 9mm Smith.
As for Taurus, with their spotty reputation for QC I wouldn't buy a new one, let alone a used one. Stick with the 9mm Smith.
ref. eldon519.
As far as I know, no one is loading the best HPs in .38 Super such as HST, Ranger T, or even Gold Dot ammo. Most seem to use old school designs though there are a few makers loading the Barnes HPs.
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The main advantage of the Super, you could use it in Country's that forbid the use of Mil-Spec caliber's, IE 9mm and .45 ACP.
For instance, the Israeli Security in Italy used .380ACP.
I would advise 9mm, as many did. But go Gen4 Glock 19. Carry a Glock 17 extra go to Mag. 17 rounds. Most likely use as a malfunction item (even though I have never had a malfunction of any nature in mine) extras? TruGlo fiber optic sights/extended slide release(Glock one)Butt plug.
You will never wear it out. Dry fire it a bunch of times, to get used to the trigger, polish it a bit as well.
As far as I know, no one is loading the best HPs in .38 Super such as HST, Ranger T, or even Gold Dot ammo. Most seem to use old school designs though there are a few makers loading the Barnes HPs.
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The main advantage of the Super, you could use it in Country's that forbid the use of Mil-Spec caliber's, IE 9mm and .45 ACP.
For instance, the Israeli Security in Italy used .380ACP.
I would advise 9mm, as many did. But go Gen4 Glock 19. Carry a Glock 17 extra go to Mag. 17 rounds. Most likely use as a malfunction item (even though I have never had a malfunction of any nature in mine) extras? TruGlo fiber optic sights/extended slide release(Glock one)Butt plug.
You will never wear it out. Dry fire it a bunch of times, to get used to the trigger, polish it a bit as well.
The bullet that a coroner determined to be the primary cause of Michael Platt's death in the 1986 Miami shootout - was the 9mm Silvertip fired by agent Jerry Dove.
Yes, the much-maligned 9mm Silvertip, created a wound in Michael Lee Platt that the coroner determined Platt wouldn't have survived even if he'd received immediate medical attention.
The issue with the 9mm round in the 1986 Miami Shootout was not an issue of bullet weight or caliber, a failure of the bullet or a failed bullet design. The issue was that of proper requirements.
The Winchester Silvertip performed the way it was designed, the primary requirement that it was supposed to meet was to not over-penetrate, and the Silvertip didn't over-penetrate.
The main failure in that situation is that the agents were equipped with a bullet designed primarily not to over penetrate when they needed bullets which penetrated 12" - 14" through various barriers (criteria the FBI later developed).
If instead of switching to 9mm, the FBI had switched to 38 Super, and then put forth as their primary criteria that the round not over-penetrate, the results would have been the same. Platt would have been hit with a round that was designed to expand rapidly and not a round designed to penetrate.
If Jerry Dove had been shooting 9mm FMJ Michael Platt would have died instantly. But the FBI didn't want their agents to have 9mm FMJ as was evidenced by the fact that they issued them Winchester Silvertips.
It seems like an awfully constrained decision making process if you start off with "38 Super vs 9mm." There are hundreds of different 9mm guns of different shapes sizes and weights with all sorts of different features and controls. There are 9mm pocket pistols, I'm not aware of anyone making 38 Super Pocket Pistol. There are other considerations like how it fits you, how it feels in the hand, how well you work the controls, how you like the trigger etc... You're only going to find a few models of guns chambered in 38 Super.
For me, I pocket carry a 9mm, my truck gun is 9mm, my nightstand gun is 9mm, it just makes things simple and I don't have to stock different calibers. But that's just me...
tark
Member
Stiab, that is most interesting. You have actually chronoed the the old ammo and found it no more powerful than the current stuff. Your research carries a lot of weight in my book. I was going by published velocities then and now. So it appears the factories are finally publishing the actual velocities. They are finally being honest.
One can handload the super up pretty hot, but reloaded ammo in a carry gun is a very bad idea. The other side's lawyer will find out about it and then: "What? Normal ammo isn't powerful enough....You have the urge to load super powerful killer ammo??"
Stupid , I know, but to twelve people who know nothing about guns, it can be a powerful argument.
One can handload the super up pretty hot, but reloaded ammo in a carry gun is a very bad idea. The other side's lawyer will find out about it and then: "What? Normal ammo isn't powerful enough....You have the urge to load super powerful killer ammo??"
Stupid , I know, but to twelve people who know nothing about guns, it can be a powerful argument.
Onward Allusion
Member
9mm all the way.
Odds are that you will not practice as much with 38 Super due to cost.
Odds are that you will not practice as much with 38 Super due to cost.
Wilson loads a 124 to a claimed 1335 fps using XTP bullets. Should be effective for self defense. But as big a fan as I am of the 38 Super, which was more available during the last panic, I'd go with a 9mm, as they are lighter to carry with the polymer frames available.
Peter M. Eick
Member
As a reloader, the 38 Super is easier. The brass is easier to pick up. Its less fussy about components. It handles lead bullets easier due to the non-tapered case.
I can do anything a 9mm can do with my 38 Supers "ballistically" with less pressure given the larger case. So basically 38 Super for me.
I can do anything a 9mm can do with my 38 Supers "ballistically" with less pressure given the larger case. So basically 38 Super for me.
OP did not indicate he reloads and mentioned that he will be getting ammo from his LGS. Also, I am not aware of any source of HST or Winchester Ranger T bullets unless you wanna buy loaded 9mm or 357 SIG rounds, pull the bullets, and then reload them. Gold Dots are obviously readily available for reloading, but see first comment.
For arguments sake lets say I can get either caliber in the same gun so we don't get into the S&W vs Glock vs Springfield vs Colt vs whatever else. If this were the case, and along with the fact that i don't reload, I feel most people would say take the 9mm correct? It seems that factory ammo wise that if the two calibers were shot out of the same gun there wouldn't be a big enough difference to notice, other than the 9mm would cost about half as much?
JTQ
Member
Except it is a big deal. The 1911 is designed for rounds as long as the .38 Super. Historically, the 1911 has had trouble with shorter rounds like the 9mm. It has changed somewhat recently, but the .38 Super is still a round designed for the 1911. Additionally, there are very few other guns chambered in .38 Super, so your options are limited.
Agreed. We weren't buying your OP statement where you said you could get .38 Super for the same price as 9mm. That just isn't realistic.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Yeah, I would say that would be correct. I would say most people would suggest the 9mm myself included.
As to cost? The 9mm being more common and more produced would be the least expensive for example:
Winchester White Box 9mm 50 rounds. About $0.30 / round.
Winchester White Box 38 Super 50 rounds. About $0.68 / round.
Just a few examples but depending on manufacturer, sales, whatever you can guesstimate about twice the price for the 38 Super over 9mm Luger on average. The 38 Super is simply not as mass produced as the 9mm Luger.
Ron
For the love of God please nobody should pay 30 cents a round for WWB 9mm, holy crap is that a ripoff of epic proportions. I like Midway but range ammo is something I have never bought there for anything except maybe 12 gauge once
Try $0.20 per round for Speer Lawman 9mm 115gr FMJ. Better ammo at 50% lower cost. Compare that to whatever 38 super costs and then think about all of that extra practice and training and shooting that could be done
http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/1000-round-case-9mm-luger-speer-lawman-115-grain-fmj-ammo-53615
Wreck-n-Crew
Member
My 2 cents and its already been covered. If you don't reload go with the 9mm.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I agree but I wanted the same brand from the same vendor. Granted Midway is far from a good deal. Since I load 38 Super I haven't a clue what it normally sells for but I did have an old box of 38 Super laying around here, likely something someone gave me, and it had a $20 price tag on it I think. I can't even remember the brand. Again, all I wanted was an apples to apples thing staying with a single manufacturer for both 9mm Luger and 38 Super.
Overall I think you will find on average 38 Super runs about twice the cost of 9mm Luger.
Ron
sgammo is always a good place to check. They have some cheap stuff at about 30 cents per round shipped
http://www.sgammo.com/product/38-su...e-38-super-fmj-target-ammo-armscor-ammunition
But all of the better stuff is more expensive, some significantly so, it seems.
^^^^This is where the thread should have ended.
I carry 1911s, often in. 38 Super or 9mm, but I have 9mm and 9x23 barrels also fitted to my Super. I don't burn much Super ammo on the range, though there are plenty of quality self defense loads available. However, based on personal experience with the brand, I would never consider buying/carrying a Taurus, particularly a 1911. Given the choices I agree with Jim Watson, the OP should just buy the M&P and not look back.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I'll be darned, that is the stuff I have laying here, Armscor. I've had it a few years, it was given to me and the box is marked $20.99. I should shoot the stuff and see if the brass is any good.
Ron
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