9mm reload issue

[gk3]

I recently had an issue with some 9mm loads. I loaded several hundred 115 gr LRN from Missouri Bullet and seated them to 1.100 (from Hodgdon data). The powder is HP38 and I used 4.5 grains. Starting / Max is 4.3-4.8.

At the range a couple of weeks ago, my Glock 17 locked 1/4" out of battery while shooting these rounds through an Alpha Wolf barrel. It was jammed up more severely than an FBI agent trying to prosecute Hillary for her emails.

I could not clear it safely in the range by hand (the slide was completely locked), so I asked the range officer if he'd take it to the gunsmith on site and clear it for me. When they cleared it, he said the round came apart and the projectile stayed in the barrel and had to be knocked out.

I read online about case bulge, so I ordered a Lee bulge buster kit and a Lee Makarov crimp die.

MBC recommends 1.08 COL on their site. I have already run all the rounds through the bulge buster. Should I also seat them deeper? I'm not at max charge, so I think that should be okay, but unsure. After running them through the bulge buster, I think they will feed reliably now, but they are still a little sticky in the barrel. Probably not enough to effect operation, but when I turn the barrel upside down, the rounds don't fall out. They are easily removed by hand, though.

 

[VThillman]

Probably not the same problem you had before. If the chamber is on the snug end of spec, the lead bullets may be just oversize enough to be snug in it. MC bullets are OK?

 

[gk3]

Yeah, factory ammo "plunks" and falls out with gravity. I loaded up 100 coated 115gr Bayou bullets at the same COL and they also plunk and do not stick. Like you say, I think it's the profile of the MBC and likely why they recommend a deeper seating.

I should also clarify that I love MBC and I'm not at all complaining about their product. I'm just trying to figure out what I did wrong and if I'm on the right path.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I have had similar problems over the years. Over sized rounds jamming my pistols in IPSC matches often cost valuable points. Wilson and others make very good chamber checking tools. I now use the Lyman Ammo Checker it is a reasonably priced multi chamber device. Check your rounds before going to the range with this tool.

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman/case-prep/ammochecker.php

 

[mgmorden]

I'll second the case gauging advice Dog Soldier gave. Every round I load I check in a gauge and if it doesn't drop into the gauge with the tiniest amount of force, it goes into a reject bin. Usually about 3% to 4% of my loaded rounds will end up failing the test and I just cull them out (once upon a time I told myself that I'd eventually pull those bullets and reload them, but realistically I doubt I'll ever get to that ).

For .40S&W I will run the failed rounds through a bulge buster ONCE to see if that brings them into spec. About 75% of the time it does but the remainder still fail.

In a pinch if you don't want to use a gauge, take the barrel out of the gun and try dropping each round into the chamber. If it doesn't drop in freely, toss it.

PS The Lee Bulge buster isn't supposed to be used on 9mm. It's a tapered case. With 9mm if I gauge those and they fail, I'll toss those immediately. Per Lee's website

** Will only work with the following cases: 380 ACP, 10mm, 40 S&W, 41 AE (Use 40 S&W Factory Crimp Die), 45 ACP, 45 GAP, and 45 Win Mag.

 

[reddog81]

I don’t think the bulge buster will make a difference here. The bullet was stuck into the rifling not allowing the round to go forward or be pulled out. The case very likely was not stuck. You eventually pulled the case off the stuck bullet and the case ejected leaving the bullet lodged in the gun. You probably short stroked the press and one round slipped through with too long an OAL.


I have a Lyman case gauge and for this type of failure the gauge will not reject the round. Only a pluck test in the barrel will catch this.

 

[AR-Bossman]

I don’t think the bulge buster will make a difference here. The bullet was stuck into the rifling not allowing the round to go forward or be pulled out. The case very likely was not stuck. You eventually pulled the case off the stuck bullet and the case ejected leaving the bullet lodged in the gun. You probably short stroked the press and one round slipped through with too long an OAL.


I have a Lyman case gauge and for this type of failure the gauge will not reject the round. Only a pluck test in the barrel will catch this.

100% correct. I just ran into this with some locally made coated 9mm projectiles. They work great in my gauge, but wouldn't fit in either of my 9mm. I had to load them to the shortest COL I've ever used.. 1.090. ANYTHING longer and they wouldn't fit. That's a stubby nose for ya.

 

[Walkalong]

I check all my sized 9MM brass with my Wilson case gauge, if they don't fall out on their own I scrap them. That solves the case problem

It doesn't solve bad crimps, oversized bullets, too long OALs. Always check a few loaded rounds using the "plunk test" before loading a big batch.

Some prefer to gauge loaded rounds, but I haven't had any trouble as long as my cases gauge OK.

 

[rdtompki]

I can load Bayou 115gr to 1.16" in our SA 9mm 1911. I have to load Acme 115gr to 1.09". Acme's are very stubby and even in barrels with a longer throat they seem to require a shorter OAL. Now 1/4" is really out of battery, more than can be explained by too great an OAL. Pull the barrel and get back into the loading room loading some dummy rounds to determine max OAL.

What I do is load a load a dummy round to a generous OAL and keep reducing the OAL (same round) until it chambers. At this point I can load several dummy rounds at that OAL to ensure chambering. Finally, when I start to load live rounds I check the first couple since the OAL tends to be slightly different with a full shell plate. An RCBS or similar micrometer seating die is very valuable in working this problem.

 

[kingmt]

To add to what has already been said I'd load one on the short side with primer only. Squid it in the barrel then force it the rest of the way throw with a brass rod & hammer. Measure the slug from the barrel compared to a few virgin slugs. See if maybe you need to order smaller ones.

I'm betting you need to seat deeper for that barrel tho.

 

[murf]

fyi: the wilson case gauge doesn't check case diameter, only case length.

murf

 

[hAkron]

Those MBC 'small ball' 115gr bullets do have to be seated to 1.08/1.09"

 

[bbqreloader]

For .40S&W I will run the failed rounds through a bulge buster ONCE to see if that brings them into spec. About 75% of the time it does but the remainder still fail.

mg, try the lee undersized die for the 40. Got tired of using the bulge buster and still losing a bunch. I'm now down to tossing 3 or 4 cases instead of 15 or 20

 

[gk3]

I did order a Lyman 8 hole case gauge and have been using it along with the barrel plunk test. You can use a 9mm Makarov factory crimp die with the Lee bulge buster to resize Luger brass. It may be an unnecessary step, but it's fairly quick to do and can be used on live rounds. Some of the 9mm loads were difficult to run through the bulge buster and others not so much, so I feel like it may have helped. It probably was a round that somehow ended up way too long.

I'm going to reseat a few to 1.08-9 and test fire tomorrow.

 

[Walkalong]

fyi: the wilson case gauge doesn't check case diameter, only case length.

murf

You're thinking of their rifle case gauges which do not check diameter. The pistol gauge does:

L.E. Wilson has been producing high quality precision reloading tools for over 80 years. The Max Cartridge gage gives reloaders the ability to check all critical maximum SAAMI cartridge dimensions of straight wall cartridges - mouth diameter, base diameter, rim thickness and diameter, case and overall length and bullet diameter.

Technical Information
Notes:

• If your cartridge will fit into the gage, it should fit in any firearm chambered to SAAMI specifications for this specific cartridge.

• Not all firearm chambers or magazines are designed to SAAMI specifications.

With mine anything over .391/.3915 at the base will stick in the gauge, and even my tight chambered (Was under SAMMI before SA fixed it) EMP will accept that.

I have lot's of 9MM range brass. I figure if it has been stressed enough to not fit the gauge after sizing in a normal sizer, I don't want it. Overly cautious? Perhaps, but I have plenty, and only have to scrap about 10%.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have lot's of 9MM range brass. I figure if it has been stressed enough to not fit the gauge after sizing in a normal sizer, I don't want it. Overly cautious? Perhaps, but I have plenty, and only have to scrap about 10%.

Not at all too cautious IMO. I think you're correct, with all the 9mm brass available for free there is no reason to use brass that is at all questionable. This is especially true in competition.

 

[RainDodger]

Ok, I'm curious now... I had to look up "bulge buster" on the Lee web site, especially for 9mm, which is a tapered case. Lee doesn't offer a bulge buster in 9mm, as I would have figured, since it's not a straight case. What's the story?

 

[Walkalong]

I double checked and Wilson makes a Case Length Gage (Marked "Case Length"), but their Max Cartridge Gage (Marked "Pistol Gage") does all dimensions, and that is what I have.

I had forgotten they made both.

 

[Robert Ramos]

Lyman makes a Pistol Max Cartridge Guage (the one I use) like the Wilson, Walkalong suggest's, got mine from Midway Part # 7832330..

 

[RainDodger]

Ah. Ok. a gauge and not a "bulge buster" for 9mm! Thanks.

Just as a side note, I've been loading 9mm since about... oh... 1980 or so, and I've never had this problem and never had to use a gauge to check pistol cartridges. The only thing I've ever seen is maybe a split case after it's worn out.

 

[Walkalong]

I had loaded 9MM for probably 20/25 years before I got a tight chambered EMP and one of my reloads locked it up like a bank vault first time out. The same reloads that ran my other 9MMs. Turns out the chamber was slightly under SAMMI minimum and SA reamed it and polished it for me. Now it is at SAMMI minimum, but anything that passes the Wilson gauge I have will run it it. I learned something about fat chambers in 9MM. I was blissfully ignorant for quite some time on that one.

 

[wiiawiwb]

I use the barrel of the particular handgun I intend to shoot a round from for the plunk test. Any reason not to use that?

 

[rfwobbly]

I recently had an issue with some 9mm loads. I loaded several hundred 115 gr LRN from Missouri Bullet and seated them to 1.100 (from Hodgdon data).

Loading data is not a recommendation. It is a lab report in which they say, "This is what parameters we used and no one died. Now, make it work for you."

Max OAL for your cartridge reflects the interplay between your barrel and your bullet, neither of which were present during the lab testing. So it's up to you to determine what the appropriate OAL should be for each brand, type, and weight of bullet. Sometimes the published test OAL works out OK, sometimes not.

 

[Walkalong]

I use the barrel of the particular handgun I intend to shoot a round from for the plunk test. Any reason not to use that?

Not at all, that is what the plunk test is. Making sure your OAL will work with your barrel, as well as making sure they are not too fat etc.

Gauging ammo is another thing entirely.

 

[RPegram]

A couple of weeks ago I had a similar experience with 45 auto in a SR45. I had some plain lead 230 gr lrn from MBC that I never got around to loading and decided to try some Green Dot and Unique under them. The powders were a gift and I decided it was time to play. I found the plain lead would "gum" up and cause the gun to jam about a 1/4" from going into full battery. Once the plain lead were shot, I then had some coated Hi-tek ones and they functioned perfectly. The lube on the plain lead is gummy and sticky. As a side note, the Green Dot worked great at around 5.0 to 5.1 gr (doesn't meter the greatest) and the Unique was good at the same weight. The brass looked as shiney once fired as before, absolutely no sooting or burning of the outside of the case.