9mm rounds not plunking

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nettlle

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Been reloading 9mm for a couple of years for a couple of PCR's I own and never had any problems. I recently acquired my first 1911 9mm single stack and I am having trouble with the rounds not plunking.

Dimensionaly everything checks out with the exception of the OD of the case where the bullet base is seated. This diameter is 1.385" on some of the rounds. These are the rounds that aren't plunking.

I adjusted my taper crimp die down so that this diameter is 1.380". This causes the case mouth diameter to be 1.360". This also the first time I have been able to get these rounds to fit in my Wilson case gauge. I am concerned that I may be crimping so much that I am swaging the bullets.
 
The simple answer I long ago found? Lee Factory Crimp Die. It does away with the adjusting to get the crimp correct. It adds one more step but for me? Well worth it. First time I tried one decades back friend had a nice S&W 38. I tried rolling her some ammo and they did not want to load in the cylinder. Bought one of the new to me LFC dies and problem solved. So I started ordering one for every pistol caliber I had. The results were impressive enough to make me stick with them.
 
When I load 9mm, even though I sort by head stamp, the cases are all different lengths anyways. I set my crimp up to make the shortest case I can find pass my case gage.
Yes, the longest case is probably over crimped somewhat but that's life, I'm not sorting by length also. That may be why your getting only certain ones that don't pass your plunk test. They will be the short cases that aren't crimped enough.

I adjusted my taper crimp die down so that this diameter is 1.380".
I don't see how adjusting your taper crimp a little will affect the diameter of the case, at the base of the bullet. But ok.

This causes the case mouth diameter to be 1.360". This also the first time I have been able to get these rounds to fit in my Wilson case gauge. I am concerned that I may be crimping so much that I am swaging the bullets.
I just checked some of mine, they mic at .3775 at the case mouth and .380 at the base of the bullet.

Taper crimping will not swedge down a bullet in it's entire length. It will put a ring where the taper crimp crimps the mouth of the case.
crimp ring.jpg
Pulled bullet that was taper crimped, notice the ring. Didn't change anything else as far as diameter. Chances are you are now crimping the correct amount for the first time. You may be able to lighten up some on the crimp though.
 
The simple answer I long ago found? Lee Factory Crimp Die. It does away with the adjusting to get the crimp correct.
Well, not really, it just has a little flex because of the o-ring and is a little more forgiving, it can still be adjusted poorly and cause issues.

More taper crimp is not the answer, even if it "fixes" the chambering issue. The same goes for post sizing with an FCD that squeezes a poor round to fit. The issue that is causing chambering problems should be fixed.

When I have issues with cases fitting a case gauge or plunking, it's too fat near the base. All the taper crimp should do is remove the flare, or just a hair more. I adjust the taper crimp die so the shortest cases get the flare removed and the longer cases a bit more, maybe .001 of inward movement.

Light Taper Crimp On 125 Gr Zero JHP In .38 Super Pic 1.JPG
 
I adjusted the taper crimp die and the 50 I ran back through the taper crimp die plunk and fit the case gauge. Base and all. I am not saying this is the ideal fix for this and am open for any suggestions.
 
When I load 9mm, even though I sort by head stamp, the cases are all different lengths anyways. I set my crimp up to make the shortest case I can find pass my case gage.
Yes, the longest case is probably over crimped somewhat but that's life, I'm not sorting by length also. That may be why your getting only certain ones that don't pass your plunk test. They will be the short cases that aren't crimped enough.


I don't see how adjusting your taper crimp a little will affect the diameter of the case, at the base of the bullet. But ok.


I just checked some of mine, they mic at .3775 at the case mouth and .380 at the base of the bullet.

Taper crimping will not swedge down a bullet in it's entire length. It will put a ring where the taper crimp crimps the mouth of the case.
View attachment 1047373
Pulled bullet that was taper crimped, notice the ring. Didn't change anything else as far as diameter. Chances are you are now crimping the correct amount for the first time. You may be able to lighten up some on the crimp though.
I agree with everything you have said here.
 
I adjusted the taper crimp die and the 50 I ran back through the taper crimp die plunk and fit the case gauge. Base and all. I am not saying this is the ideal fix for this and am open for any suggestions.
To answer this, we must know where the round is binding in the chamber or throat. You may simply need to shorten the OAL.
 
I adjusted the taper crimp die and the 50 I ran back through the taper crimp die plunk and fit the case gauge. Base and all. I am not saying this is the ideal fix for this and am open for any suggestions.

They all plunk in your barrel, they all fit your case gage, that's what they are supposed to do. Why do you think this is not the ideal situation?

What you achieved is, you were under crimping the cases and some of the short ones didn't get the flare removed by the taper crimp.
You readjusted your dies to crimp more and caught the ones that weren't crimped enough and now they pass all your tests.

You just fixed your problem, good job!
 
It sounds like brass bulging that might have developed in your PCR chamber causing problems in the 1911 chamber.

I took a few measurements:
some 9mm I loaded up 2 years ago and shot last Thursday (which has not been resized or anything yet) measures 0.379" at the case mouth, 0.382" at the point where the base of the bullet would have been and .388 at the base of the case. I fired 50 of thes emixed brass cases and they all functioned flawlessly in a Glock 19x with a brand spanking new threaded barrel from faxon. This fired brass stands proud in a LE Wilson 9mm case gage. Once you get to the rim, it can't really be pushed in further or at least I'm not going to try to.
Another box of the same ammunition loaded at around the same time which has not yet been fired and has bullets seated measures as follows: 0.374" at the case mouth with a Berry's 124 gr hybrid hp in it; 0.375" at the base of the bullet approximately; 0.387" at the base of the case. This bullet bobs up & down in the Faxon chamber just fine and bobs up and down in the Wilson case gage just fine as well.

A factory federal HST 124 grain: 0.375" at the case mouth; 0.375" at the base of the bullet approximately; 0.384" at the base of the case. It obviously plunks in everything just fine.

I don't know if any of this will even help.
 
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Well, not really, it just has a little flex because of the o-ring and is a little more forgiving, it can still be adjusted poorly and cause issues.

More taper crimp is not the answer, even if it "fixes" the chambering issue. The same goes for post sizing with an FCD that squeezes a poor round to fit. The issue that is causing chambering problems should be fixed.

When I have issues with cases fitting a case gauge or plunking, it's too fat near the base. All the taper crimp should do is remove the flare, or just a hair more. I adjust the taper crimp die so the shortest cases get the flare removed and the longer cases a bit more, maybe .001 of inward movement.

View attachment 1047374
<Shrug> Don't know, all I know is I have been using then for over 20 years in every handgun caliber I shoot and they eliminated all problems. I guess maybe if someone is talented enough they could even screw up with them? Who knows
 
<Shrug> Don't know, all I know is I have been using then for over 20 years in every handgun caliber I shoot and they eliminated all problems. I guess maybe if someone is talented enough they could even screw up with them? Who knows
I've had one for many years but have only occasionally used it. As I recall, the results were acceptable. I haven't really used it too much though because I haven't found a problem that it fixes. What specific problem does it address exactly?
 
RMR MPR 124 grn are giving me the problems. I have reloaded some 124 grn Gold Dots the same way and have had to make no adjustments for the Gold Dots.
 
Am going to try to shoot some of the re-crimped rounds tomorrow. If the accuracy is there problem solved. There is no solution on my Dillon 550C after seating other than the taper crimp die.
 
outsode of just touching the crimp die to just take any remaining bell out of the mouth, any real crimp on 9mm isn't common. before you bell the case mouth, will the sized cases plunk in and out? just a guess, but your oal may be too long, or you're bulging cases a hair when you seat bullets or crimp. just paint one with a sharpie, let it dry, drop it into the chamber and then turn it back and forth like 1/8" a few times. Whatever is touching will wear off the ink and indicate very clearly where the issue is.

the variable is the new firearm, most likely is the chamber is cut a bit tigher, or the throat/lead is a bit different/shorter. will it plunk factory rounds? since you don't know the answer I'd consider the firearm suspect as well, burr in the chamber or something. I'd clean the snot out of the chamber before doing anything else.
 
RMR MPR 124 grn are giving me the problems. I have reloaded some 124 grn Gold Dots the same way and have had to make no adjustments for the Gold Dots.
lead bullets are bigger in diameter than jacketed bullets. so, your belling, seating (run a separate plunk test for each bullet) and crimping should be different.

luck,

murf
 
Whichever method you choose, I find it useful to test for bullet setback by measuring OAL, moderately pressing the cartridge against a wooden surface, then measuring OAL again for any significant reduction. Mixed 9mm brass can be finicky.
 
They are all the same COAL.The round stops 1/16"-3/32" short of plunking before recrimp.

Were the cases all full length sized....?....That seems like the case head is too big......

Did you try and put the round in the case guage head first, that would prolly let you know if that was the issue...?
 
I'm going to start over in the morning and recheck all my die set ups. As walkalong says my problem is that it is too fat at the base. I'm off tomorrow and it's raining all day. I am thinking now it's a problem with the sizing/depriming die being set incorrectly.

I have run at least a thousand 124 grain coated SWC and a thousand RMR MPR 124 grain through my CZ's with the same die settings without a single issue. This 9mm 1911 Dan Wesson is a whole different animal.
 
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Been reloading 9mm for a couple of years for a couple of PCR's I own and never had any problems. I recently acquired my first 1911 9mm single stack and I am having trouble with the rounds not plunking.
• No two 9mm chambers are the same. Each manufacturer cuts their chambers differently and the reloader has to accommodate this in their thinking and calculations.
• 9mm Luger is a small round, but it is NOT an easy round to reload. In fact it is one of the most difficult handgun rounds to reload correctly. As stock brokers are fond of saying, "Past performance is no indicator of future results." The fact that there was no trouble in the beginning only indicates that you were dealing with guns with lax chamber dimensions and as a result may have adopted lax reloading standards.


Dimensionally everything checks out with the exception of the OD of the case where the bullet base is seated. This diameter is 1.385" on some of the rounds. These are the rounds that aren't plunking.
I am not trying to embarrass anyone, but rather point out some glaring errors to hopefully educate...
• No, sorry to say that is not a true statement. If 'everything DID check out', then the rounds would fit. Something is missing.
• There is no dimension on a 9x19 Luger round as high as 1.385". Reloading demands a level of precision and attention to detail that is missing here.


I adjusted my taper crimp die down so that this diameter is 1.380". This causes the case mouth diameter to be 1.360". This also the first time I have been able to get these rounds to fit in my Wilson case gauge. I am concerned that I may be crimping so much that I am swaging the bullets.
• Again, there is no dimension on a 9x19 Luger round as high as 1.380".
• There are at least 3 events that can keep a 9mm cartridge from chambering...
1. OAL - Every bullet has a different ogive shape. These differences must be accounted for. In an auto pistol, bullet-to-barrel fit is everything. OAL dimensions given is the manuals are NOT recommendations.
2. Crimp - Because the 9mm chamber is tapered the 'taper crimp' must be precise. The diagram in your reloading manual shows the TC at a dimension of 0.380", which is a maximum. Therefore your best taper crimps will be in the 0.376 to 0.379" range. No more, no less. This is NOT a "if some is good, more is better" situation. Aim for 0.377" and variations will all fall in an acceptable range.
3. Excessive brass dimensions - Case head expansion due to being shot in a firearm with excessive chamber dimensions, OR brass from super-high pressure rounds like 9mm Major. Case head dimensions in excess of 0.391" simply will not fit some chambers. Additionally, sizing dies cannot resize a case in that area. Bottom Line: Brass fired in your PCR may no longer be suitable for your 1911.
All 3 of these situations need to be checked and accounted for.
• The Wilson case gauge is a great tool, but is no substitute for the barrel. When you start reloading for a new gun, you MUST use the barrel as the cartridge gauge. The barrel is "she who must be obeyed". The case gauge always has limits and cannot tell you everything the barrel can tell you. IOW the gauge only gave you half the information you needed. Thus you were blind in certain areas of cartridge construction.


In short, we are not baking cookies where we can get "pretty close" and things still work out. Some of the adjustment tolerances in reloading are smaller than a human hair. So you'll simply need to "up your game" to play in this league.
 
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I got the 1.380" dimension stuck in my head. My apologies for this error. I have found the problem and corrected it. It was not the taper crimp. All the dimensions of the loaded round and case now match the dimensions in Lyman's 49th. The rounds plunk nicely in both my barrel and the Wilson case gauge. Thanks to everyone for their advice.
 
The decap/resizing die was set too high. About the thickness of the paper clip retainer at the first station too high. Rookie mistake. When you mentioned the bulge at the base that's where the case was hanging up both in the barrel and the case gauge. I realized I was fixing the wrong end of the reload.

When I set up the 550 I checked for plunking and all was good. It seems, even with the incorrect setting on the resizing die, some of these would plunk and some not. Haven't figured that part out yet. Although I have never owned a case gauge until I started having 9mm plunking problems I think the money for the case gauge was well spent.

These are much better quality rounds now. Thank you for your help.
 
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