9mm XTP and FC Brass Issue

[ImjinScout]

Hi all,

Just ran into a problem that seemed a little strange to me, when loading the free 9mm XTP bullets that I received from Hormady, I noticed that after the crimp I could push the bullet in farther all the way in the case when doing the bench test(pushing the bullet nose on my work bench to see the case tension).

I am using mixed brass but was able to determine that it was only with FC brass, all the other brass was fine. I have always loaded Berry's 115gr and never had a problem. I realize that the 2 bullets are different in dia. by .001 but why only the federal brass. The berrys bullets load fine in this brass.

For my set-up, I only expand very lightly, my seating depth is 1.12 and my crimp diameter is .375 to .376, after I finished all of my xtp bullets, I loaded up the rest of the berry's using the FC brass without any issues. Now I did try one and not run it through the expander die and it seemed to be ok, but like I said I barely expand the case at all.

Maybe someone could shed some light on the issue, thanks

 

[ole farmerbuck]

Your FC brass is probably thinner. Do your RP cases work ok? They're usually the ones that are the thinnest.

 

[helotaxi]

There is a pilot on the case expander. That pilot is too large. Even if you only expand 0.001", the pilot has entered the case and stretched the body of the case out of size. Your options are to use some very fine emory cloth to reduce the diameter of the pilot, call the manufacturer of the die and explain the problem and ask them to fix it or not expand the case.

 

[ImjinScout]

The R-P brass is fine as far as I know but will check, will have to look at the pilot on the die, but would'nt that be a problem for the other brass as well?

 

[helotaxi]

Depends on the brass hardness. If you're getting a lot of springback from one type of brass, then it isn't an issue. Apparently the FC brass isn't giving you sufficient springback. Either way, the pilot is too big since you shouldn't be relying on brass springback to maintain neck tension on your handgun loads.

BTW, how are you crimping?

 

[[email protected]]

What die set are you using? I ran into the same problem not too long ago with my lee die set in 40 s&w. I picked up several boxes of xtp bullets to load up some rainey day surplus ammo. These were the first jacketed bullets I loaded on my LNL AP press. No matter what I tried I couldnt get enough neck tension to hold the bullet securely. I didnt want to modify my expander die, since it worked perfectly with my cast bullets. I ordered an undersized Lee die and all is perfect now. I use the regular sizer for cast and plated, and the undersized die for jacketed.
And for what its worth the crimp is not what holds the bullet in place. If you crimp too much it may buckle the case and lose neck tension.

 

[GLOOB]

I didnt want to modify my expander die, since it worked perfectly with my cast bullets.

My Lee 9mm flare die is so tapered that I don't think it would matter. Back it out for jacketed, and dial it down farther for cast; either way, it would only flare a short way into the case mouth. My Lee 357 flare die is much more of a gradual, deeper flare. Maybe I should try it with my 9mm cast bullets.

 

[GLOOB]

As for OP, I personally have never seen FC brass that was thinner or had neck tension problems. My Speer and R-P cases are thinner. FC about the same thickness as WIN.

The only thing I've noticed about FC is the brass alloy is a little harder. If your cases are/were shot in an oversize chamber, a harder alloy would spring back more after sizing. I wonder if your chamber might be a cut a little on the loose side. Just a wild theory. But if this was the case, I think your S&B brass would be worse. When my 9mm S&B has been reloaded hot more than a few times it gets so hard to pull the lever when sizing that I chuck it.

 

[918v]

We're talking about 9mm brass. FC 9mm brass does have thinner case walls than RP and the softest alloy of all.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

We're talking about 9mm brass. FC 9mm brass does have thinner case walls than RP and the softest alloy of all.

Thank you. Someone finally agrees with me!

 

[jr_roosa]

I can't use FC brass in 45 acp in my 1911 for the same reason. I like Winchester.

J.

 

[gamestalker]

For loading jacketed bullets it is not necessary to expand the case mouths, thus unnecessary to apply a crimp. Chamfer the inside of the case mouth lightly and evenly, and those bullets will seat nice and tight and straight.

I've been loading jacketed handgun bullets in this manner for a long, long, time and have not had a problem yet.

GS

 

[1SOW]

We're talking about 9mm brass. FC 9mm brass does have thinner case walls than RP and the softest alloy of all.

918 is right.

Your taper crimp does not "hold" the bullet. It only removes the bell the seating die puts on it so it will feed. If you crimp much harder, the bullet can be damaged--especially plated bullets.

Case "neck tension" holds the bullet in place if the case is sized properly and has sufficient brass "strength". FC (and other 9mm ATK cases) is the softest 9mm brass I reload. Win, R&P, and PPU are all harder/stiffer than the FCs.

 

[ImjinScout]

Thanks for the responses, This is the first time that I have loaded jacketed bullets as well. I have the ND Hornady die set with a separate crimp die. As was said earlier it's probably the expander die, so I guess I won't be loading anymore jacketed bullets.

Just glad I caught this before shooting any, but now that I think of it I did shoot about a hundred rounds about a month ago and I'm sure that I had some FC brass.

 

[Walkalong]

Sounds like it is possible you are over crimping as well, since crimping is shortening the round with FC brass. Something to check. You should be removing the bell and maybe a hair more, that is all. As 1SOW posted, neck tension holds the bullet in 9MM.

 

[ImjinScout]

Well my crimp its a very light crimp, and it works with all the other brass, just odd that its only with the federal brass, thinner, softer like others have said. I'm sure its in the expander die

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[918v]

Or it may be your sizer die. Some dies are defective. Walkalong has one.

 

[dickttx]

I have the same problem with Starline brass in 38 Super. I also have a few GFL cases that have the same problem.
Using my normal loading procedures there is not enough case tension to hold jacketed bullets (Precision Delta) securely.
I have been running my cases through the sizing die, as normal, then running them about 3/16" into a 9mm sizing die. Then using the 9mm expander in my Lee expander/flaring/powder drop die, with as little flare as possible.
If I decide I really want to load jacketed bullets I will need to determine if it is the sizing die or the expander that is causing the problem and get the proper size.

 

[weemsf]

I have loaded thousands of 9MM's. I put just enough bell on the case so that I can get the bullet to stay put while seating it. I use RCBS dies on an Dillon 550. If your 9MM's don't have a slight hourglass look to them, your sizer is out of spec. 40's were terrible about this when they first came out. I went through 5 sets of ides and had to get Redding to put an undersize sizer ring in my dies to load the 40 S&W. 9MM should be a snap.

Don't shy away from the jacketed bullets because of an issue. Solve it and you will be more confident than ever in your reloads. Precision Delta, an online retailer, sells 9MM 124 grain jacketed bullets for $85/1000 delivered. Here is the link:
http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-9-124-FMJ

 

[ImjinScout]

Well I was only loading the XTP because I received them for free. I load berrys and not a problem with those no matter which brass I use. Just will keep it in mind and glad I caught this issue. All of my reloads are for plinking, thanks for the help

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[Cherokee]

Must be your expanded die, the expander diameter is too large. I load a lot of FC brass with cast and jacketed, no problems. I too use the Hornady XTP w/o problem.

 

[H&R Glock]

I have exactly the same problem with 9mm FC brass. The only solution I have is stop belling the brass!
I resized my slipping brass, then seated the bullet without belling and the FC's passes the push test!

 

[kingmt]

It isn't a problem with any one thing but you have 3 all good in spec items working together to cause the out of six problem. First your sizer die doesn't work your bread as much as others. Second FC bread is thinner then most. Third XTPs are only .3555". All that together should be your problem. Of course since I can't actually see it I'm guessing.

 

[gamestalker]

Try this.
Take a resized case and do a light chamfering of the inside of the mouth, or just enough to create a small bevel so the bullet will start nice and smooth. Then seat a bullet without belling the mouth or crimping at all. Then do the bench test and see what happens?

It is very easy to apply too much crimp and ot be able to identify such, or a slight over belling of the mouth thus reducing neck tension because the mouth gets deformed by a mear .00025" or so. Think about this take on it, most who reload pistol cartridges do not trim the brass. So if the brass is different lengths, then the degree of crimp, and regardless of what the dial caliper is measuring, is not going to be consistent, so your going to have mouths getting distorted yet still measuring correctly.

This is how I load all jacketed bullets for auto loading pistols, including XTP's for the 9mm. Not only will it produce the absolute maximum neck tension obtainable, but it also saves a little time in the reloading process.

GS