9th Circuit stirkes down California Law protecting Police Officers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Jeff White

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
37,985
Location
Alma Illinois
The 9th Circuit has made it legal to make Knowingly False accusations against police officers. Hmmm...McCain/Feingold didn't affect free speech, but now you have a constitutional right to make a knowingly false accusation against a police officer. Whatever happened to Liable and Slander laws? Isn't making knowingly false claims to incite violence able to be regulated under the principle that says you can't yell fire in a crowded theater if there isn't a fire and claim it's protected speech?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...39097854EF4796E5862570AF0017F24E?OpenDocument
SAN FRANCISCO: Court rejects state law on free-speech grounds


A federal appeals court nullified on Thursday a California criminal law adopted after the Rodney King beating that made it unlawful for citizens to knowingly lodge false accusations against police officers.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the law was an unconstitutional infringement of speech because false statements in support of officers were not also criminalized.

The decision overturns the California Supreme Court, which in 2002 ruled that free speech concerns took a back seat when it came to speech targeting police officers.
 
I wish there was some regulation that allowed the disbanding of the entire 9th Circuit. What a bunch of kooks.:cuss:

And not just for this particular case, but for all the pseudo-judicial vomit that comes out of that court.
 
Looks like it was NOT struct down on "Free Speech", but simply because it was directed at only one "class" of citizen.
 
Remember that statute when the CA S. Ct. upheld it. It is not "happily drafted."

They do like their laws out in CA (law for this, law for that), but I cannot understand why their equivalent Legislative Services Agency drafted it so narrowly. Why not just a general False Informing statute and not have this objection raised?
 
Um, it's spelled libel.

It's very dangerous when one group of people gets special protection.

Cops should be no more - or less (!) - protected against such statments than other ordinary folks. If false statements are made, they can be pursued as such (esp if involving creation of a false police report).

Otherwise we could have a very chilling effect on the reporting of police misconduct.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA
 
I don't have a problem with this ruling.

1. Why should false statements against Police be more important than false statements against Firemen or School Teachers?

2. Why should false statements against be unlawful, but false statements in support be legal?
 
billwiese said:
Um, it's spelled libel.

It's very dangerous when one group of people gets special protection.

Cops should be no more - or less (!) - protected against such statments than other ordinary folks. If false statements are made, they can be pursued as such (esp if involving creation of a false police report).

Otherwise we could have a very chilling effect on the reporting of police misconduct.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

Assuming, of course, that the 'ordinary folk' isn't lying about police misconduct.
 
Why?

Practically speaking,

It isn't a crime to make knowningly false statements towards another civilian, as it is nearly impossible to prove.


Why should officers be given the status of a higher class and given protection from this?


After all, whatever is said is meaningless until a court of law hears the case, and a jury decides. Also note that an officers word is already given greater credence than that of an ordinary civilian. After all, they have DNA which makes the more honest, honrable, and less corruptable.


I see this as a limit to the futher re-classification of authorities as a super-class. Seems like the 9th has hit that 1 in 10 chance where they produce a decent decision.
 
More signal, less noise! Read the decision and make up your own mind:

http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/CFA461FFB98287D4882570AE000E1261/$file/0356885.pdf

El Tejon - Pregerson echoes your point. If a person acting as a witness made a false claim in regard to a claim of police misconduct, he could not be prosecuted under this statue, only the originator of the claim. This was not a carefully written law.

We note that any impermissible viewpoint-based bias present in the complaint investigation process is easily cured: California can make all parties to an investigation of peace officer misconduct subject to sanction for knowingly making false statements. Otherwise, the selective sanction imposed by section 148.6 is impermissibly viewpoint-based.
 
if they can do it to us and get away with it then we should be able to do it to them and get away with it.
 
Ruling sounds right to me.

Why should it be illegal to make false statements?

You should, of course, be responsible, under civil and criminal law, to pay for unjust damage you do, and for lying on the witness stand, etc.

But who determines what "false" means? There's the problem. What is "false"?

And of course, one should not be required to make any statement that might incriminate him/her, per the 5th Amendment.

That's something I've wondered about both Bill Clinton and Scooter Libby. What about the 5th Amendment? It would seem to me that the 5th protects you from prosecution for failing to incriminate yourself. Why should Bill Clinton have been compelled to answer any questions about Monica Lewinsky in the first place?

I didn't like the guy, but one day it could be you or me up there in court, and I don't like the precedent.
 
The 9th circuit is a bunch of cross dressing pedophiles whose decisions are almost always overturned.
 
Dead said:
Looks like it was NOT struct down on "Free Speech", but simply because it was directed at only one "class" of citizen.
Agreed. This does not appear at all to have been decided on the basis of free speech, but on the basis of equal protection. Sounds like the court basically said "You can't make a lie against the police illegal unless you also make a lie for the police illegal."

I have no problem with that. (Despite it's having originated in the 9th Circus Court.)
 
I wish there was some regulation that allowed the disbanding of the entire 9th Circuit.

There is. Federal judges can be removed from office by Congress.

Might snow in San Diego next Independence Day, too, but Congress could remove the clowns from the Ninth Circus.
 
Telperion, thanks for posting the link.

I read that statute a few years ago and thought "did they write this statute in an hour?"

Jeff, statute is screwed up. I do not think this was cop specific. You know how they love laws out there and everything out there is political. I think they rushed this statute through, no one in the Assembly read it, and voted for it as it was "pro cop."

The law is a mess. They should repeal it and start over with a clean sheet of paper, or, just drop it entirely.
 
False statements to whom? Your wife? Your neighbor? Or is this merely another layer of law that should simply be covered under "Filing a false police report", "obstructing justice" or similar?

Personally I think that if it can be proven that you deliberately make false accusations of criminal behavior against anyone in the course of a legal investigation that you should face santion equivalent to twice the maximum allowed sentence of the crime of which you are accusing someone else, and that should include rape "victims", estranged spouses angling for custody and police officers and district attorneys who knowingly falsify evidence to secure convictions (and those last two don't neccesarily go together, I know personally of one dirtbag DA who tried to force multiple police officers into perjored testimony to lock up another police officer for political gain - the NAACP was involved).

Yes, it would be a very hard charge to prove.
 
This is very simple. You can lie to anyone you want. You can make false statments. It is between you and them. If they feel victimized by you, then they take you to court, and the government becomes the arbiter of the dispute resolution.


Now, when you lie or make false statements to the government - the game changes.


Civilian vs. Civilian -- not a big issue, it's their problem. Equal footing under the law.


Civilian vs. Government -- major issue, you've got a serious problem, and the dynamic is exactly equal to a child getting caught lying to a parent - and the parent will do the punishing.


This is dangerous and unjust. The government is not some higher power that we are beneath. They government serves us. We should not be held as criminals for lying to the government - that is tyranny.



Martha Stewart didn't go to jail for insider trading. She wasn't even CHARGED for that. She went to jail for lying to the government about a crime that NEVER existed and one that she was never charged for. Pure tyranny. This is the ultimate example of how the government functions as a superior above the civilian in its own class as master. Imagine that. Imagine the government **thinks** there was a murder. It has no proof, and the little it does isn't enough for a case - largely speculation. They question you about it, you say you don't know. They hound you, pressure you, search you - so much so until you produce an inconsistancy in your story. Then they prosecute you for lying or obstructing justice and you go to jail. In the eyes of the law, a crime never existed, but you paid the price for it, because your behavior was criminal in the eyes of the government who was attempting persue a non-existing crime.


LOL....Folks, if you think you still have rights, you're sorely mistaken. You have nothing. We only have what *they* allow us to have.
 
Sounds like a good decision to me... although if you're a JBT, I suppose you might disagree.
 
Court: false accusations against police are protected speech

DAVID KRAVETS

Associated Press


SAN FRANCISCO - A federal appeals court on Thursday nullified a California criminal law adopted after the Rodney King beating that made it unlawful for citizens to knowingly lodge false accusations against police officers.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the law was an unconstitutional infringement of speech because false statements in support of officers were not criminalized. The decision, hailed by civil liberties groups and opposed by the California District Attorneys Association and law enforcement groups, overturns the California Supreme Court, which in 2002 ruled that free speech concerns took a back seat when it came to speech targeting police officers.

The case concerns Penal Code Section 148.6, which lawmakers enacted after a flood of hostile complaints against officers statewide following King's 1991 taped beating. The 1995 law is punishable by up to six months in jail.

"The imbalance generated by section 148.6, i.e., only individuals critical of peace officers are subject to liability and not those who are supportive, therefore turns the First Amendment on its head," Judge Harry Pregerson wrote for the unanimous three-judge panel.

The case concerned Darren Chaker, now 33 of Beverly Hills, who was convicted in San Diego County in 1999 of making a false complaint against an El Cajon police officer.

Chaker was originally arrested for "theft of service" for retrieving his car from a mechanic without paying - charges that were later dropped. He complained that the arresting officer, without provocation, hit him in the ribs and twisted his wrist.

Authorities charged him for allegedly making up the story, and he was convicted by a jury in 1999 after a hung jury in the initial trial. He was sentenced to two days in custody, 15 days of community service and three years' probation.

Chaker appealed to California's courts, to no avail. A federal judge had ruled against him as well, so he went to the San Francisco-based appeals court.

"It was up to the police department to determine if the speech was false," Chaker said. "I made a complaint against a police officer for twisting my wrist and was charged as a criminal."

The American Civil Liberties Union hailed the decision.

"To us, it was a clear example to cut off criticism of the government," said ACLU attorney Alan Schlosser.

Michael Schwartz, a Ventura County prosecutor who on behalf of the California District Attorneys Association urged the appellate court to uphold Chaker's conviction, said he was disappointed with the outcome.

"It's a controversial issue that people disagree about," he said. He said the statute in question is only used sparingly.

San Diego County prosecutors said they were considering asking the appeals court to reconsider or asking the U.S. Supreme Court to review the decision.

Pregerson wrote that precedent for his ruling stemmed from a 1992 U.S. Supreme Court decision striking down a hate-speech ordinance in St. Paul, Minn., which banned speech that "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender."

Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that the law imposed special prohibitions on speakers who express views on "disfavored subjects" but did not punish those speaking on behalf of favored topics.

Thursday's decision undercuts the California Supreme Court, which in a 2002 unanimous decision by Justice Ming Chin, upheld the statute and the 30-day sentences of two Oxnard residents who complained that an Oxnard police officer exposed himself to about 50 teenagers at an awards banquet. The Oxnard Police Department said it investigated the couple's allegations and could not corroborate them, so Ventura County prosecutors charged Barbara Atkinson and Shaun Stanistreet for filing a false complaint.

The two, who vigorously maintained the allegations against the officer were true and were being covered up, were convicted by a jury and ordered to serve 30 days. California's justices, in ruling against the pair's First Amendment challenge, ruled the potential harm from false reports could damage an officer's credibility and even waste police resources investigating the complaints.
 
Aren't currently existing laws regarding libel and slander enough to cover this behavior? I understand how professionally damaging it can be for someone to make a false accusation against you. But if the accusation is proven to be untrue, it would seem fairly simple to take the accuser into civil court for damages.
 
Good point. Thread over.


Until false statments and lying by LE's and Feds is criminalized, they have no right to complain. They can lie to any degree they see fit for any reason whatsoever.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top