A Call To Arms - Attention Californians

[MudCamper]

There are a lot of "California is a lost cause" and "just give up" replies in here. Shameful. Fight! Never give up. And FYI, it's not always a losing battle. The guys at CalGuns have managed to legally get ARs and AKs back into California. I think the tide has turned. We are going to win.

 

[DomMega]

I would support something of this nature 110%, however its not the state's fault these laws were all passed. It's the California citizen's fault for not opposing them when they were brought into the polls. The vast majority of the citizens in California don't want this type of legislation, they're all paranoid hippies that just fear guns regardless of who has them. They don't realize that law-abiding gun owners would make their communities safer rather than more dangerous. They don't realize that the state that is considered the "gang capital of the world" would make those gang members think twice before attempting to stab or shoot an innocent civilian seeing they don't know if they may be shot themselves. Gun control is the biggest fallacy on the books and the people in California follow that doctrine so blindly that it totally evades their common sense. That's why this state is "The REPUBLIC of California." When it comes to common sense, it's a pity but our general population has the common sense IQ of my shoelaces.

 

[brighamr]

There's going to be a meeting on Monday July 16th at the Modesto Police Department at 6pm. The meeting itself is hosted by the Madison Foundation in order to raise funds to help Sierra Sports who was wrongfully accused of selling AW (they sell OLLs).

My point being, the Madison Foundation has the same lawyers from the Parker case, and if you want to get an initiative started for CCW or any other cause in CA, it wouldn't hurt to meet with them and the rest of the people who will be there on Monday (mostly californians who want their rights back).

In addition, they are raffling off a '43 Garand, and 2 1911's for fundraising purposes!

 

[tube_ee]

I was a volunteer last time this was tried...

And I will be when it's tried again. But without serious financial supprt form one of the national gun-rights organizations, it is doomed to failure.

California's public democracy laws are some of the most (classically) liberal in the country. Hiram Johnson should be in the first row of great Americans, just for these laws and the ones in other states later on.

Orderly public democracy is a great thing. But the existence of companies whose entire business is paying people to gather signatures has corrupted it beyond all reason. The fact that you can get guaranteed access to the ballot for 2 million dollars has resulted in so many initiatives on every ballot and so many people gathering signatures that most people just tune it out. So it then takes even more money to win, because you've got to use a lot of very expensive repetition to force people to pay attention. If they can, they'll ignore you, even if they agree with you, because they resent the constant hammering, voter information booklets the size of small-town phone books, and all the rest of it.

The NRA wouldn't spend a dime. No reason was ever given that I heard. I'm convinced that they'd rather have California, Illinois, New Jersey, and the others as bad examples to keep gun owners in other states writing checks every year. If they actually won, they'd loose a lot of money.

The other thing is that, on the list of gun-controlling states, CA is probably the best for gun owners. Our laws are often nonsensical, but they're not so onerous that people really get mad. There's some stuff we can't buy, and it takes 10 days and about 50-75 bucks in fees to buy a gun. If you're willing to pay $100 and you've got a clean record, you can get a piece of paper from the CA DOJ that will get rid of the waiting period. Not the fees, of course, da man must get paid, but compared to southern New England and the Mid-Atlantic coast, California starts to look pretty good.

Our politicians know just how far they can go on this issue before it costs them support. Wacky stuff like ammo registration and full bans are introduced every year, but they almost never make it out of committee, because the "leadership" in Sacramento are more interested in keeping their jobs. Stay in office until you're termed out, run for the House, loose to the lifetime incumbent, wait one more year, go to work as a lobbyist, PR guy, or lawyer. Cash in, buy big boat, retire.

Nice work if you can get it, eh?

--Shannon

 

[crazed_ss]

If you're willing to pay $100 and you've got a clean record, you can get a piece of paper from the CA DOJ that will get rid of the waiting period.

I would like to know more. I'm on the 8th day of my wait for my new Sig P220 and I am going insane!!!

 

[tube_ee]

It's called a "Certificate of Eligibility"

You can get the forms and such from CA DOJ's website. LiveScan charges $100, and no, they don't remember the last time they ripped you off, and no, you can't be fingerprinted anywhere else. Somebody in Sacramento was well-paid to give LiveScan that deal.

Anyhow, there's a procedure, and it's not free. Whether the ability to buy firearms on demand is worth that cost, is up to you. Not that you should have to make that choice, but it is what it is, for now.

--Shannon

 

[Daedalus7]

I thought COE was only for those with a Class 03 FFL (C&R) and only applied to C&R firearms?

 

[magsnubby]

A couple years back i was involved in gathering signatures to get a pro gun initiative on the ballot. We finally junked the whole thing. Why? We couldn't get enough signatures because most Califorinans don't give a monkey's butt about their gun rights. You wouldn't belive the amount of gun owners that wouldn't sign a petition because they didn't want their name on "A list." Even the local NRA officals weren't worth a crap because, according to one NRA rep, "It could actually end up doing more harm than good." Lots of guys said "Yeah. Lemme know what i can do to help" never went past the "Lemme know" stage.

Like tube_ee said, without serious financial support form one of the national gun-rights organizations,and i just don't see that happening, it is doomed to failure. I really hate to admit it but California is a lost cause.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I'd rather start with the repeal of Rowlands v. Christensen - that's the case decision that created for a homeowner a duty of care for an univited trespasser (burglar). Why should a burglar sue if he gets injured on your property? That's just wrong. Now, add to it a self-defense law (Make my Day) with no civil liability for shooting of criminals at home, at work and on the streets.

Afterwards, work on repealing the AWB.

 

[brighamr]

without <insert $ or NRA support or a new governor or a new president or any other excuse you can think of> it is doomed to failure. I really hate to admit it but California is a lost cause.

rant:

And that is exactly why California will continue to lose their rights, never gain support and go further and further down the spiral.

I used to fight people in other states, pleading them to help us. I used to stand up for Californians and try to convince others that we are trying to get our rights back...Then I realized most people living here have the aforementioned mentality.

Like I said before, if you want to get involved, want some of your rights back, want to help get some just guys out of prison; show up at the meeting on Monday. This is your chance to actually make a difference, I mean these guys won the most influencial case in years! This case will pave the way for all future California gun laws. (The defendant is not just fighting to get out of jail, he is fighting the entire system and has evidence to back it up.) This is not another Kasler, inspite of "lost cause" thinkers tend to say.

/rant

 

[tube_ee]

Dedalus7

You are correct, Sir.

At least as I now read the law (tough to do, unless you are a lawyer, and I'm not). I should have double-checked before posting.

My apologies to anyone I mislead.

--Shannon

 

[Oana]

duplicate post

 

[Oana]

I think a proposition like the OP suggested wouldn't go anywhere. Too many hot-button issues all packed in one. HOWEVER, an initiative for a constitutional amendment, or a law requiring shall-issue to qualified persons, might. I see the pessimistic (realistic?) side of things - the money, the time, the fact that CA recently had such a proposition and it couldn't make it. The NRA might not back it. GOA might help, I don't know. (I'd hate for it to become a fight between the NRA & GOA, causing infighting and a whole slippery slope. *shudders*) Hold a bake sale or 20,000...I don't know!

Tips? If you go for it, definitely go for the "core" groups - ranges, gun stores, etc. BUT, there are plenty of people out there who don't even own firearms and support CCW. Or who would, if it were explained to them. I know several who I think would happily sign. Try colleges, particularly after VT. Get young(er) people to mention it in their blogs (and MySpace/Facebook, too). Coordinate with groups like the College Republicans. And don't discount the third parties - Constitution and Libertarian! Their people might be far more active and ready to volunteer than Republicans.

I'm rambling I guess, but the possibility is out there. In the meantime, let's do our best to "come out of the closet" when possible, to show everyone that gun owners & those who support them aren't the boogeyman. Many people tend to vote with their emotions as much as their heads, and knowing that "Well, So-and-So shoots/supports CCW, and he/she's a really nice person..." does a lot to sway opinions in your favor. Of course, this might be the best way to go about effecting change period. One person, one business policy, one college regulation, one state at a time...

 

[LAK Supply]

Sad to hear these things. Back in the early’80’s there was a proposition (I can’t remember the number it’s been too many years) to ban handguns in the state. I was one of the troops pounding on doors and handing out literature. (I had the misfortune to live in the Bay area for 8 years.) It went down in flames. It was either a two or three to one vote against the ban. We didn’t hear anything out of the anti’s for years after that.

It's funny you mention that..... I had a lengthy conversation last week with one of the main people that helped to fund that opposition. Him and some of his family bank-rolled a healthy chunk of that effort, and they were justly rewarded by the state. Intimidation is one of this statist state's most common tools......

 

[Jacka L Ope]

There are a lot of "California is a lost cause" and "just give up" replies in here. Shameful. Fight! Never give up.

Must have read my mind. The day one rolls over and gives up may as well be the same day one lays down to give up the ghost.

.02 cents.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Its a matter of mobilizing gun owners in this state and getting them angry. VOTE ANGRY and buy more guns get more and more guns into the state and get the anti's to roll over and give up.

 

[magsnubby]

Okay...(deep breath)...i write letters to the editor, congressman, senators...even Dubya when the AWD was about to sunset...anyone i think might be able to help our cause. I try to educate people about what's behind the real meaning of gun control. I argue against gun control using facts, not emotion. I've brought fence sitters over to our side. I've taught a ton of people to shoot.

How many Cal residents know our state constitution does not guarantee us the right to keep and bear arms? Not very many. Right after the SF handgun ban passed we were trying to get an initiative on the ballot to add a constitutional amendment to guarantee our right to keep and bear arms. We were hopeing that the SF ban would be the catalyst that would unite gun owners. We failed. Why? Because, like i stated before, the average Cal gun owner doesen't give a monkey's butt about anything except where's the next Starbucks. Or they don't want their name on "A list". Yes, i actually had gun owners tell me that very thing.

I've asked Democratic gun owners "How could you vote for someone that wants to take away your constitutional rights." "Well the Republicans don't really care about the poor people. They're just for big business and rich people". "So when the hell was the last time a poor person offered you a job?" If you're so concerened about the poor people, why don't you do volunteer work to help the poor people or the homeless?" That's usually followed by a mumbled "Well...i really can't afford to spend any extra money...and i don't really have that much free time..." Down cast eyes, Starbucks coffee in hand...

That's the type of thing you have to deal with. Change that attitude and i'll be more than glad to eat a little crow (long as i can b-b-q it first) and admit i was wrong. Until then, it just ain't gonna happen.

So show me how to mobolize gun owners and MAKE THEM VOTE ANGRYand i'll be more than happy to stay in the fight.

 

[wjustinen]

Curious

CITIZEN in the state age 25 or older

Sounds like a great idea if you can get the support. Sorry I can't be of much help here in the frozen north - pray for global warming.

I was wondering why non-citizens and those under 25 should be excluded.

 

[esq_stu]

Shall Issue and CCW reciprocity with other states or issue CCW licenses to non-residents - I spend half my time on business in CA and feel totally defenseless.

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

The fact that our illustrious 9th Circuit reverses every positive proposition or ruling that comes down doesn't help our moral much.

After our very own AWB passed and the vast majority of gun owners flipped the bird at their registration requirement, I believe many decided to stay below the radar. Many gun owners may not want to put up much of a fight now, but I give them kudos for the bird flipping.

I think many are just tired of the broken system, waiting for some kind of balloon.

I know people who support the 2A but "life" is just too busy to even shoot much and don't have extra $ to fight for it. Firearms have dropped down their list of priorities, what with their job, wife, kids, etc.

Who knows, that's just my .02 from the people I've met shooting.

 

[JeffCinSac]

It's not about getting on the ballot...

...it's about whether such a thing will pass in an election. If something like this made it to the ballot, and failed, what would the politicians in Sacramento do?

That's why the NRA didn't support it. That why the NRA didn't support Parker when it was initially filed (O'Connor still on the court instead of Alito). And that's why I decided not to sign the petition last time around. Neither did any of my shooting buddies. It's not because we're lazy, or have given up on the state. It's because the way to change CA laws is through the courts and by fighting the loopholes as they emerge (see what calguns.net did regarding OLLs as evidence of such a strategy), NOT by asking soccer moms in SF and LA whether they support your right to bear arms. They don't.

-J

 

[obxned]

At one time in this country 'A Call To Arms' meant that all able-bodied citizens should arm themselves and gathered together for their mutual defense.

Now it means begging your rulers for a small privilege.

 

[Scorpiusdeus]

I'd support it and though I understand what the nay sayers are saying, I say, don't stick you head in the sand just because a bunch of defeatists say you can't do it.

Yes, it's a huge undertaking, yes, it MAY BE impossible, but it's embarrassing to read so many people discouraging it.

If it doesn't get legs, it will be because of people like those here saying "nope, can't happen".