A CCIA violation by a bystander

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GEM

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https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2023...other-diner-steps-in-with-gun-police-say.html

New Hartford, N.Y. — After an Applebees worker was slashed in the face by a man with a knife a diner stepped in and held the man at gunpoint Saturday, police said.

Esteban Padron, 28, entered the Applebees on Commercial Drive in New Hartford at 6:42 p.m. and started fighting with workers, according to a news release from the New Hartford police department.

Padron went behind the bar and grabbed a steak knife, slashing a worker in the face with it, police said. Another worker was also injured during the fight, police said.

A man eating in the restaurant noticed Padron’s behavior and pulled his gun on him, ordering him to the floor and to release the knife, police said. The man is licensed to carry the gun, police said.
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Now, according to NYS law, carry was probably forbidden as I doubt the restaurant had a sign that you can carry. Second, the restaurant serves alcohol, another felony for carrying a gun.

The license is irrelevant. He could not carry there. Will the gun carrier be charged? Should he have done that? Might this case if he is charged make Clarence realize that not supporting the TRO against the CCIA for his legal weeds and scolding the 2nd Circuit is actually hurting citizens?

All interesting questions.
 
He certainly violated the letter of the law; but not the spirit of the law. The law was designed to prevent shootings in a restaurant or bar. In this case, would the legislators have sought to prevent an individual from protecting an "innocent" person from grave bodily harm or death by another? You have to look at the records of the legislative debate around the law to figure that out. That said, a Soros funded DA would certainly prosecute the CCW. A wiser DA would turn a blind eye and it depends on the jurisdiction you are in.
 
Nope. As a Constructionalist, Thomas will be first to not interfer with the 2nd Circus. Alito would likely take the same stand.
There is a notion that the Circuit court has to show how much rope they are willing to be hung with.
The problem, of course, being the Sotomayor has already "meddled" with the 2nd.

4v50 Gary said:
The law was designed to prevent shootings in a restaurant or bar
Click to expand...
I'd argue that CCIA was created as political grandstanding and that actual crime prevention was entirely secondary to creating a political power base. But, I'm highly biased in this.
 
While I was NYC born and raised I have no desire to ever live there again. I have a question regarding the law if anyone knows. Where I live, actually Cleveland, Ohio we now have Constitutional Carry
carry but I do have my CHL (here it's a Concealed Handgun License). I can legal carry my gun into any establishment serving alcohol but not consume alcohol. So I can hang with friends in a bar and drink ginger ale. :)

So my read here is in NY I can't carry even with a NY state carry permit in any establishment serving alcohol? Then too in NY nothing surprises me anymore.

Ron
 
Ron, to the best of my knowledge NYS does NOT recognize the pistol permits from ANY other state. (As a resident of upstate NY I cannot carry into NYC.) So not only can you NOT go into any establishment serving alcohol, you cannot legally carry into the STATE.

Our legislature/governor recently passed some nonsense laws/restrictions about not possessing in public places in general... But thinks the "no bail catch and release program" a great and progressive idea...
 
shooter1niner said:
Ron, to the best of my knowledge NYS does NOT recognize the pistol permits from ANY other state. (As a resident of upstate NY I cannot carry into NYC.) So not only can you NOT go into any establishment serving alcohol, you cannot legally carry into the STATE.

Our legislature/governor recently passed some nonsense laws/restrictions about not possessing in public places in general... But thinks the "no bail catch and release program" a great and progressive idea...
Click to expand...
Thanks, I was aware NYS does not have reciprocal carry laws with any state. I was just curious as to the alcohol establishment.

On a side note and not to derail this thread about once a year my wife and I would make my journey back to LI NY for an annual party on the beach. Before every trip I would "sanitize" the truck making sure not even a spent brass case was rolling around from a range trip. Never know and I figure I paid my dues to NY growing up there. Then too, that was a long, long time ago. Upstate I enjoyed hunting and the scenery is beautiful. Again, thanks for sharing the laws as they are today. :)

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
While I was NYC born and raised I have no desire to ever live there again. I have a question regarding the law if anyone knows. Where I live, actually Cleveland, Ohio we now have Constitutional Carry
carry but I do have my CHL (here it's a Concealed Handgun License). I can legal carry my gun into any establishment serving alcohol but not consume alcohol. So I can hang with friends in a bar and drink ginger ale. :)

So my read here is in NY I can't carry even with a NY state carry permit in any establishment serving alcohol? Then too in NY nothing surprises me anymore.

Ron
Click to expand...
It used to be, before this BS this summer, you cold carry into a bar but they (Counts mandatory gun course for licensing) advised against using your gun if you’ve been drinking. You could be drunk and possess your firearm but we were admonished that it could get litigious if we were use if for SD.

NOW, we can’t even legally carry it into a friends house unless they give permission, and nowhere they serve alcohol.
They made felons out of all of us.
 
I’m very interested to see how this plays out.
I have seen nothing alluding to the fact that he shouldn’t have been carrying in the restaurant.
Maybe they don’t want to make a big deal out of it because they don’t want people to recognize that a concealed firearm CAN help protect people too….?
 
NY law now says any business establishment must have a sign saying they allow guns, if they don’t and you step in while carrying, you have committed a crime. Same for residences, you must have permission before you enter.

So this Good Samaritan, even if he’s not criminally prosecuted, will likely have a hearing before some agency and lose his license since he did not follow the law. NY has always been more than ready to take a license, this new law only makes it worse.
 
This is indeed a very unfortunate situation for the kindhearted Good Samaritan here.
It is also why a self-imposed rule to ONLY intervene for dear family and friends helps.
No sense going through the legal wringer for a stranger who won't recall your name next week.
 
film495 said:
THE CONCEALED CARRY IMPROVEMENT ACT WHERE WE STAND FOUR MONTHS LATER — New York Criminal Attorney Blog — November 9, 2022

I don't know if this is accurate any longer, but it says they can not enforce a ban in a bar/resaurant that serves alchohol and has a liquor licence. So, a quick look to me says there isn't anything to quesion about the good samaritans actions here. It is NY so, who knows, but a quick look says there can be no enforced ban where he was.
Click to expand...

I’m not certain, but I believe the state applied a stay to this and that we still must follow the CCIA at this time.
I think the religious places of worship is the only place where the stay has no affect.?
 
Wolfshead said:
I’m not certain, but I believe the state applied a stay to this and that we still must follow the CCIA at this time.
I think the religious places of worship is the only place where the stay has no affect.?
Click to expand...
Certainly a case for anyone who lives in a place where CCIA applies to strongly consider carry insurance. Nuts, and almost impossible to figure out IMHO.
 
Born and raised in Queens, married and moved to Nassau Co. Started shooting trap and reloading in the 60's. in the mid '60's Nassau Co. passed a law that you had to have a "powder permit" to buy powder for reloading. Had to be a fireproof room.
 
About carry insurance, there is a nuisance and you should check with your provider. If you go to trial for shooting, they probably cover you in a reasonable SD case. They may not defend you for the gun carry charge if you violate a carry law. Will they defend you for the SD shooting if you violate a carry law - better check that out.

Again we await, the originalists to get out of their time machines from 1781 and act to preserve our rights NOW! From all I've read there is no reason not to let the TRO stand if your perspective is preserving rights as compared to legal procedural weeds and posturing.
 
In Michigan, unless a restaurant specifically has sign stating firearms are not allowed, it is ok to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as alcohol sales make up less than 50% of total sales dollars.
 
Ate there more than once, although I live an hour away. New Hartford is where all the upity ups from Utica live. Don’t know if they will charge or not. He could always say that he “observed” the disturbance and went to the vehicle . . . Don’t know. Our laws are in a state of confusion at the moment. I can say, not a bad part of town at all.
 
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