Yesterday I bought an H&R Pardner Protector. I really like this gun. I got a sweet deal on it for $189 new. When I shoot it it functions flawlessly. But, when my wife shoots it, it binds up after firing. She has trouble ejecting the shells. For some reason after she shoots it I had to push the slide forward and then back to eject the shell. This gun works perfectly when I shoot it. Could she be not slaming it home hard enough when loading the first round and failing to properly place the extractor? What could she be doing wrong? I don't get it.
A compatibility issue with wife and new shotgun
- Thread starter Ben86
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oneounceload
member
You could get some practice dummy rounds (AZOOM), and let her try with those - little safer.
DaleCooper51
Member
The length of pull might be a little too long for her. When a shotgun is too big for you it's hard to operate and normally knocks the snot out of you.
Bud Tugly
Member
If the main use for this gun will be HD so you both need to be able to shoot it, you might want to cut the stock down to her dimensions. It's much easier to use a gun that's slightly too small for you than one that's too large.
If it's going to be used a lot for hunting or clay shooting as well, then buy her a youth model pump (Mossberg and Remington both sell them) and keep thiis one as it is for yourself.
If it's going to be used a lot for hunting or clay shooting as well, then buy her a youth model pump (Mossberg and Remington both sell them) and keep thiis one as it is for yourself.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
It could be a combination of two problems- improper fit of the gun to the shooter, and lack of familiarity with the proper operation of the gun. If she's relatively small compared to you, it's almost certain that the stock is too long for her and should be shortened. Never fear, you can use a short stock just as effectively- as long as you remember to put your firing hand thumb either on top of the stock or over on your trigger finger knuckle. Otherwise, that thumb might get really well acquainted with your nose under recoil when you shoot, and that leads to bloody noses, watery eyes, loss of target focus and other less than useful things.
One other thing a too-long stock does is to force the shooter to over-extend their support arm to reach the forearm. And some defensive shotguns have short, 'corncob' or police type forearms ratehr than the longer field or sporting type forearms to boot. It's really hard for a shooter to manage a pump shotgun with their support arm stuck straight out- extend your (empty!) shotgun out from your shoulder sometimes till your support arm is straight, and see for yourself how hard it is to manage. A shorter stock and a longer forearm will often help in these cases.
It may be also that she is not pulling straight back on the forearm, but is twisting (and therefore binding) it in her effort to run the gun. Watch and see whether or not that is the case when she's practicing pumping an (empty!) gun.
That's all I can think of without actually seeing her shoot- hope this helps,
lpl
One other thing a too-long stock does is to force the shooter to over-extend their support arm to reach the forearm. And some defensive shotguns have short, 'corncob' or police type forearms ratehr than the longer field or sporting type forearms to boot. It's really hard for a shooter to manage a pump shotgun with their support arm stuck straight out- extend your (empty!) shotgun out from your shoulder sometimes till your support arm is straight, and see for yourself how hard it is to manage. A shorter stock and a longer forearm will often help in these cases.
It may be also that she is not pulling straight back on the forearm, but is twisting (and therefore binding) it in her effort to run the gun. Watch and see whether or not that is the case when she's practicing pumping an (empty!) gun.
That's all I can think of without actually seeing her shoot- hope this helps,
lpl
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Brother Lee spake well.
The best advice I can add is to have some fecally cognizant shooter watch your wife shoot. My guess, there's a couple factors at work here. Elimination of one or two will help ID the rest.
Also, get some ultra lite loads like 7/8 oz birdshot loads for her to learn with. Less slamming, faster up the learning curve.
HTH....
The best advice I can add is to have some fecally cognizant shooter watch your wife shoot. My guess, there's a couple factors at work here. Elimination of one or two will help ID the rest.
Also, get some ultra lite loads like 7/8 oz birdshot loads for her to learn with. Less slamming, faster up the learning curve.
HTH....
BHP FAN
Member
The McCraken's on to something.I'd recommend low recoil /low noise Winchester Featherlites.Despite the nancy sounding name,they give good hits,and would even work for SD in an apartment type dwelling,where over penetration might be a concern.
....
my wife and daughter cant shuck a pump,reliably",theyre both 100 lbs and 115 lbs"tiny, so i have shorty 20 gauge single shots around the house,im quick with a 19" barrelled nef,practise-practise,with what you got/afford,im gonna have another shorty fixed up by gunsmith,soon as i find a cheap single shot again.good luck.
my wife and daughter cant shuck a pump,reliably",theyre both 100 lbs and 115 lbs"tiny, so i have shorty 20 gauge single shots around the house,im quick with a 19" barrelled nef,practise-practise,with what you got/afford,im gonna have another shorty fixed up by gunsmith,soon as i find a cheap single shot again.good luck.
ThePunisher'sArmory
Member
I'd find a gun that fits her better, and that she can use properly, and buy it. After all that would be an excuse to by another gun yes!
The shotgun is pretty short. It's the Pardner Protector version with the 18.5" barrel. The stock is the shortest I've ever used. Although, she is pretty small in stature, being a 5' 3", 110 pound Asian chick. She doesn't plan on relying on it for HD (she'd much rather the glock 17) but I wanted to make sure she knows how to use it in case her handgun didn't seem adequite for the situation. I trained her with low brass #6 shells and it still bruised her, the delicate little flower that she is.
I think Lee Lapin may be on to something. Maybe she isn't pulling the slide straight back. I'll have to let her practice with some snap caps.
Thanks for the advice guys. Training women is such a pain sometimes.
I think Lee Lapin may be on to something. Maybe she isn't pulling the slide straight back. I'll have to let her practice with some snap caps.
Thanks for the advice guys. Training women is such a pain sometimes.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Ben,
With the gun unloaded, take a tape measure or yardstick and measure from the front of the trigger to the outside edge of the recoil pad/buttplate, to a point about halfway from the heel to the toe of the stock. How long is that distance (aka the LOP, length of pull) on your gun?
My wife is 5'4", and the 'house guns' here (Remington 870 12 gauge) are fitted to her, not me. They have stocks shortened to 12.5" LOPs and field type forearms, no magazine extensions (the extra weight out front of the support hand is a no-no) and premium recoil pads. I can shoot 'em just fine.
For more details see:
http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/You-and-me-and-the-LOP-Length-of-Pull-Page1.htm
http://www.sidebysideshotgun.com/articles/gun_fitting_article.html
http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnoidArchive/30-Apr-09.pdf
http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnoidArchive/16-Mar-09.pdf
BTW, I've always found women easier to train by far than men. Women mostly don't seem to be born thinking they are Annie Oakley, but almost all men seem to think they are a combination of Daniel Boone, John Wayne, Audie Murphy etc. 8^)
hth,
lpl
With the gun unloaded, take a tape measure or yardstick and measure from the front of the trigger to the outside edge of the recoil pad/buttplate, to a point about halfway from the heel to the toe of the stock. How long is that distance (aka the LOP, length of pull) on your gun?
My wife is 5'4", and the 'house guns' here (Remington 870 12 gauge) are fitted to her, not me. They have stocks shortened to 12.5" LOPs and field type forearms, no magazine extensions (the extra weight out front of the support hand is a no-no) and premium recoil pads. I can shoot 'em just fine.
For more details see:
http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/You-and-me-and-the-LOP-Length-of-Pull-Page1.htm
http://www.sidebysideshotgun.com/articles/gun_fitting_article.html
http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnoidArchive/30-Apr-09.pdf
http://www.shotgunreport.com/TechTech/TechnoidArchive/16-Mar-09.pdf
BTW, I've always found women easier to train by far than men. Women mostly don't seem to be born thinking they are Annie Oakley, but almost all men seem to think they are a combination of Daniel Boone, John Wayne, Audie Murphy etc. 8^)
hth,
lpl
Ben,
SOME pump shotguns are designed to require a slight forward nudge on the forend before the action will unlock. I don't know if the H&R Pardner is designed this way or not. One way to find out is to be sure the gun is completely unloaded, rack the slide to cock the hammer. Then with the safety off, pull the trigger while simultaneously exerting a rearward pressure on the forend. If the slide immediately starts rearward upon the pulling of the trigger, then the gun is not designed to require a slight forward nudge to unlock the action.
Secondly, the thing to do is to see if your wife can operate the gun properly with NO ammo in the gun. If she can hold the gun, dryfire it, and then rack the slide properly with the gun empty, then we know that the gun is functioning well.
If she can successfully work the gun with no ammo in it, then it's a matter of either dealing with the recoil issue or perhaps the shells are sticking in the chamber and she doesn't have the strength to pump the slide. I've seen shells stick so badly in a pump gun's chamber that a grown man couldn't get the slide to work. If the shells are sticking in the chamber, then you can polish the chamber and/or buy some better quality shells which have brass heads instead of steel heads.
So, to sum it up, it's a process of elimination to solve the problem. Do the things in the order I suggested and I think you will quickly find out what the real problem is.
SOME pump shotguns are designed to require a slight forward nudge on the forend before the action will unlock. I don't know if the H&R Pardner is designed this way or not. One way to find out is to be sure the gun is completely unloaded, rack the slide to cock the hammer. Then with the safety off, pull the trigger while simultaneously exerting a rearward pressure on the forend. If the slide immediately starts rearward upon the pulling of the trigger, then the gun is not designed to require a slight forward nudge to unlock the action.
Secondly, the thing to do is to see if your wife can operate the gun properly with NO ammo in the gun. If she can hold the gun, dryfire it, and then rack the slide properly with the gun empty, then we know that the gun is functioning well.
If she can successfully work the gun with no ammo in it, then it's a matter of either dealing with the recoil issue or perhaps the shells are sticking in the chamber and she doesn't have the strength to pump the slide. I've seen shells stick so badly in a pump gun's chamber that a grown man couldn't get the slide to work. If the shells are sticking in the chamber, then you can polish the chamber and/or buy some better quality shells which have brass heads instead of steel heads.
So, to sum it up, it's a process of elimination to solve the problem. Do the things in the order I suggested and I think you will quickly find out what the real problem is.
TheFallGuy
Member
- Joined
- May 27, 2009
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Well, you always want to fit a defense gun to your shortest shooter. I agree with other posters saying the LOP may be too long. How hard does she rack the slide? Perhaps she is being too gentle with it. My gf had the same problem with my trap gun. She now has her own 20 gauge 870 with a youth stock which is perfect for her 5'3 95 pound frame.
Cheap shells could be part of the problem, always had awesome luck with Federal Law Enforcement and Tactical or Premium rounds. Good stuff.
Cheap shells could be part of the problem, always had awesome luck with Federal Law Enforcement and Tactical or Premium rounds. Good stuff.
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