A couple of .380 reloading hitches I have never experienced with other calibers

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Schwing

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I have been reloading for 2 or 3 years now but have not done much .380 and didn't realize some of the issues related to it.

Over the weekend, I decided to load up some 95 grain Montana Gold JHPs I bought a long time ago. While I do take note, especially on rounds that need to be seated deeper than publish data, I don't usually depend on OAL recommendations in manuals but fit the OAL to the chamber. I seated 3 rounds in empty cases and found that they passed the plunk test with flying colors at the max OAL of .984. I then proceeded to load them into the magazine on my Bersa ThunderCC... they wouldn't fit. I had to back them down to .970 before they would reliably feed from the magazines. I have not had a chance to test any for accuracy yet but this was very disappointing to me. Having never experienced this problem in any other caliber, I am wondering how common this is and how much accuracy I can expect to sacrifice.

I also had issues getting my desired starting load of 2.4 grains of titegroup to drop from my lee perfect powder measure. I already had a mini disk set knockoff that I purchased on ebay last year but was very disappointed with the variations I was seeing (+-.5 grains!) I then tried to use the adjustable charge bar and found it useless. I ended up filling the cavities on a spare disk full of epoxy and then drilling them out until it dropped the correct amount. Surprisingly, it did the trick.

I didn't expect .380 to be more of a challenge than 9MM but...
 
Well my Hornady manual show .980 as max. OAL. So no wonder they might not fit your magazine.
 
The data I was using (I believe it was from Lyman 49th) has .984. Regardless, it didn't fit until .970.
 
I've been reloading 380 for use in a Bersa 85 and a Colt Government 380. I've found that I needed to use the magazine as a test for OAL and settled on .965 (100gr RNFP). I also used the plunk test and 0.980 works there, but will not feed. I don't have the data on me, but I measured 4 factory offerings, including HP's, and all were below .970.
 
Ive got one bullet that I have to load to .928 for my p238 or it wont plunk. 380 is a bit annoying and its the one I started with..I think I would have had much less trouble had I started my career with 9mm. The brass was so little I could barely see the flare, so I would over do it.. things like that added some confusion to what I think might have been a bit easier. Oh yea, and Lee had to fix my sizing die as it was not giving me the right neck tension...I thought that was my fault so I was PMing everyone like a maniac trying to figure stuff out...anyway, dont get me started on 380 :D
 
I was PMing everyone like a maniac trying to figure stuff out...anyway, dont get me started on 380
Click to expand...

Oh cool can i PM you when i start loading the .380?....P238 i might add:D
 
I was PMing everyone like a maniac trying to figure stuff out...
Click to expand...
That is not a exaggeration there either, I'm here to tell ya!!
Tater almost rendered the last of my infinite patience asunder several times over!

We both got over it though!

Once he stopped calling me:
Crotchety
Crabby
Cranky
Grouchy
Grumpy
Short-tempered
Snappish
Snarky (Guaranteed to Trip my Trigger every time!!)
Thin-Skinned
Or, Testy!

Every PM, 5 or 6 times a day!
For three months. :banghead:


Now, you can PM him instead of me!

Tater, It's Payback Time!!!! :D
Your turn to answer newby questions like you had me doing for months! :D

I taught you more more then I know in all those PM's.
Several times over!


rc
 
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LOL, LOL, LOL...

I wish you were exaggerating!

And the snarky comment did set you off that day...learned my lesson on that one-been minding my P's and Q's ever since!


I definitely have payback due-



Walkalong and Reloadron can attest to the maniacal PMing that I wrought also!
 
I feel pretty lucky, I started with 40, then 9, then 380. Never had a problem with any of them. I was working with plated Extremes, and data from Lyman manual.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I just wanted some verification that the magazine limiting the oal wasn't just me. Thanks.
 
You will also find sometimes the OAL you chose will not eject from a gun, too long. No problem with fired but live ammo being to long. I have a BHP that does this. I had to shorten the length so a live round could be ejected.
 
I just wanted some verification that the magazine limiting the oal wasn't just me
Click to expand...

Not just you and this has the potential to be a problem on ANY mag feed gun pistol or rifle.

I've had the opposite problem with a similar cartridge too: 9X18 Makarov

I had some 9X18 hand loads fail to feed in my Makarov pistol because they were too short. Somehow they were coming up the feed ramp at a sharper angle and jamming. Increasing the length a tiny bit solved the problem. So sometimes you have to find just the right balance for your particular firearm...
 
Not just you and this has the potential to be a problem on ANY mag feed gun pistol or rifle.
Click to expand...
It wasn't a reloading issue, but many years ago, a buddy bought some factory rounds that were a smidgen too long for the magazine in his S&W 5906. I didn't reload then, and we "fixed" it by filing a little of the bullet point off. That small touch took care of it and they fed fine, shot fine.
But, yeah, length matters and there will be variances from the accepted standards.

As for reloading 380, take a look at BDS, ArtofGolf and Vodoun's posts on it. They have some great tips for it.
As you found out, throwing those very small charges can be challenging with some powders and measures. My buddy found (the hard way) that he could not get any consistency at all using Red Dot in the Lee Auto Disk. He was trying to get 2.6/2.7 grains and he was getting swings from 1.x to 2.x. He ended up with a couple of squibs out of it and got so frustrated that he decided to go with the Hornady LNL measure. We had tested mine with Promo at 2.6 and it was rock solid. That led to going to the LNL AP press. But, that's another story.
I have the Lee Perfect Powder Measure as well, but I haven't tried small loads on it. I normally use it for rifle and recently loaded 6 grs of Blue Dot for 38 Special. I don't know how it does at the lower end.
 
Yes, the low charges can be a challenge for some powders.

My first 380 attempt was with Power Pistol, in my Dillon press and powder measure. Worked great.

The only other powders I have tried in 380 have been Autocomp and CFE. Autocomp seemed to work well, but I need to play a little more with the CFE for a good load. Both seemed to measure well, though.
 
.380 is what I load most often. Montana Gold FMJ's, .970 OAL.

You're right... the hardest part is getting a consistent charge, especially with Titegroup. I've actually resorted to hand-weighing every single load.
 
Load Data info requested

The bullets I am using are Montana Gold 95 Grain JSPs. In my lyman 49th it lists 2.4-2.7 of titegroup for a 95 grain FMJ. In my Lee manual it lists 2.7-3.2 for a 95 grain jacketed bullet.

I worked up from 2.4 to 3.0 with no pressure signs but accuracy wasn't terrific. I was getting around 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups from 12 yards with a rest. My best was probably at the starting load of 2.4... I expected a little better from these bullets.

Anyone out there have a pet load for these? I am not married to titegroup either. I have the following:

Power Pistol
unique
bullseye
promo
blue dot
 
Schwing, you shooting these out of Bersa mentioned above? What length barrel, sight radius? - most 380 pistols are small and not known for great accuracy to begin with. I think that 1" - 1-1/2" is pretty darn good at 12 yards.
For some other load workups see the Reloading for Glock threads that ArtOfGolf started. I added to it in part IV using Promo.
 
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Schwing said:
The bullets I am using are Montana Gold 95 Grain JSPs. In my lyman 49th it lists 2.4-2.7 of titegroup for a 95 grain FMJ. In my Lee manual it lists 2.7-3.2 for a 95 grain jacketed bullet.

I worked up from 2.4 to 3.0 with no pressure signs but accuracy wasn't terrific. I was getting around 1 to 1 1/2 inch groups from 12 yards with a rest. My best was probably at the starting load of 2.4... I expected a little better from these bullets.

Anyone out there have a pet load for these? I am not married to titegroup either. I have the following:

Power Pistol
unique
bullseye
promo
blue dot
Click to expand...
I'd be fairly happy with those results... I'm getting about those groupings with 3.0 gr. Titegroup and 95 gr. Montana Gold FMJ's out of my PPK. Pretty much the same setup as you.

I've gone as hot as 3.2 gr. but was beating my hands up. 3.1 was grouping about the same as 3.0 but any bit to take the edge of the PPK after a hundred or so rounds felt like a good idea.
 
I just loaded my first 7 test rounds with some pulled 95 gr bullets and 2.4 gr of Titegroup. It's also my first time using RCBS dies and crimping while seating. I can't say I enjoyed any of the experience.... I seated the bullets deeper than planned (.928), and ended up crimping pretty tight. Since both of my powder measures were set up for other things I ended up trickling the charges.

Not totally sure the bullets are seated straight on one. I'll check it out tomorrow.

I can absolutely say after tonight that I will not be loading .32ACP.....
 
If you are shooting a bersa then you should be sending them down range w/some pretty good accuracy I would think. @ ten yards that sounds good. I started w/G42 no factory 380 were I live when it was hard to find. had to break in w/95g M.G.'s. using B.E. I had a hard time breaking it in as I to started 380. Was leaving barrel dirty gold. W/3.1g's. slugged barell couldn't push one threw. Any how went to a EXTRM. 100 FP w/W231 3.2 @.945 for both guns and not a prob. I have 500more left for when my PICO comes in.
 
I fired a few groups of blazer factory ammo as a control and the groupings were less than 1" every time.

I have to be very clear here so I don't leave any false illusions about my shooting skills.. I shake all of the time and DO NOT get groupings like this from any standing position. These are from a bench rest taking my own sweet time:)

@ljnowell: I saw those and am going to order some. I have an extra set of disks that came with my first lee dropper that I used to do this. The blank disks look a whole lot easier though.
 
As far as the OAL I will take the factory length/crimp measurements of a loaded round with the same profile type/weight bullet and start with that if it will cycle manually/when fired in my firearm. Then find a good load and experiment with seat length/crimp after that. This works especially well with straight walled handgun ammo.;) YMMV
 
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