A modern 9mm levergun, yes you read this correctly

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Speedo66 said:
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How about a modern version of the 1886 Josselyn chain fed revolver?

For those jurisdictions where even semi auto belt feds are illegal, but you still want something with a belt.

It was 20 shot, but maybe include a 10 shot chain for certain states.
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do yo chain hang low?

Couldnt help it.
We all know POF has a long and storied history in the world of lever action rifles. There were some 74 POF lever rifles turned in by the Sioux at the Red Cloud Agency as they surrendered in May of 1877. They had decided however to keep their holographic sights, which were later confiscated at Fort Robinson for further study.
 
:cool:I think anything that builds interest in lever guns and firearms / shooting in general, I am okay with. I may not like it or desire it but I think in the long run it’s a good thing.


A little story.

Two weeks ago I was in my new favorite gun store / gun range - my other one shut down. The “new” store bought all the displays from the one that shut down and redid their store putting a lot of long guns and handguns in glass displays so one can look at them up close and personal. Lever guns take up 2 1/2 displays or about 20’ of space. They have several Henry “x” model guns.
H012MX_Main.jpg
Photo from here: https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/big-boy-x-model/

Evil black copies of the glorious wood and blued steel guns of yesteryear

This was the first time I had seen any in person. Pretty cool guns. They also have a brand new Winchester 1895 in .405 Win. for $1500. Gawd, I would love that rifle…:cool:
Anyway, as I moved down the display area two guys walked up to to the lever gun case. A guy in his late 40’s and a guy in his 20’s. Father and son. They were looking and talking and I really wasn’t paying attention until I heard the young guy say “I like that X model so much. I wish I would have gotten the other one first.”
Dad “The .357?”
Kid “Yeah.” - I have no idea what “the other one” meant, probably a different cartridge chambering.
Kid “Dad, what do you think about these Rossi’s?”
Dad “I don’t know much about them. (So & so) has one and he loves it. Why, do you want a Rossi? You wouldn’t want another Henry?”
Kid “Maybe…Hey, look at the wood on this one. It looks great.”
I looked over. He was ogling a stainless Rossi.
Kid “I wish that stock was on that gun.”
He was pointing at another Rossi, not sure which one. I moved away more toward the DA revolvers so I didn’t hear any more of the conversation. I actually forgot about this until today looking over this thread.

Seems to me these evil black Tacticool lever guns just might be a stepping stone drug….
 
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Not for me for so many reasons ! However, if it brings in another supporter of the 2nd and another shooter, good for them and me .
 
BreechFace said:
So you must not like the Henry Long Ranger that is magazine fed, because that "gives anti's room to work with." :confused:

The anti's will take whatever room they want, no matter what our modern day firearms look like, to say otherwise is naive.
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Well, while keeping it polite, I'll say that new tactical looking lever rifle doesn't remotely look close to the Henry Long Ranger. No tactical fore-arm, weird stock, no magazine hanging out[that seems to frighten people], just over all appearance that will give certain parties something "to work with". My opinion and I'm sticking with it. You are entitled to yours, of course.
 
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The hatred for proprietary magazines is puzzling to me. Unless you are specifically trying to put together a pistol carbine pair what does it matter? Even with my ARs I have magazine specific to each cartridge some of which are highly proprietary. A couple of my handguns share magazines but most have unique magazines. I like the magazine the Tombstone comes with, If that was a Glock magazine hanging out at a backward rack angle the gun would be even uglier than it already is. Assuming they did the design right I would much rather have a purpose designed magazine than shoe-horning in a less optimal magazine just to have commonality. Again setting the pistol/carbine pairing aside as I have never found that useful despite having put a pair together...
 
.45Coltguy said:
Leave our normal lever rifle alone.
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Why, they can't co-exist?


mcb said:
The hatred for proprietary magazines is puzzling to me. Unless you are specifically trying to put together a pistol carbine pair what does it matter? Even with my ARs I have magazine specific to each cartridge some of which are highly proprietary. A couple of my handguns share magazines but most have unique magazines. I like the magazine the Tombstone comes with, If that was a Glock magazine hanging out at a backward rack angle the gun would be even uglier than it already is. Assuming they did the design right I would much rather have a purpose designed magazine than shoe-horning in a less optimal magazine just to have commonality. Again setting the pistol/carbine pairing aside as I have never found that useful despite having put a pair together...
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I agree. It has to be marketing. Except for some specific circumstances, I don't care one bit about magazine compatibility. It's one of the reasons why I got the CZ Scorpion over many of the other options. I think a long gun with a Glock mag hanging off of it looks stupid. Gimme an SMG mag any day of the week.
 
CraigC said:
Why, they can't co-exist?



I agree. It has to be marketing. Except for some specific circumstances, I don't care one bit about magazine compatibility. It's one of the reasons why I got the CZ Scorpion over many of the other options. I think a long gun with a Glock mag hanging off of it looks stupid. Gimme an SMG mag any day of the week.
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CraigC said:
Why, they can't co-exist?



I agree. It has to be marketing. Except for some specific circumstances, I don't care one bit about magazine compatibility. It's one of the reasons why I got the CZ Scorpion over many of the other options. I think a long gun with a Glock mag hanging off of it looks stupid. Gimme an SMG mag any day of the week.
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"Why, they can't co-exist"? I'm sure they could. My point is, the more "tactical" looking a lever rifle is, the anti's will be all over it. And not in a good way.
 
mcb said:
The hatred for proprietary magazines is puzzling to me. Unless you are specifically trying to put together a pistol carbine pair what does it matter? Even with my ARs I have magazine specific to each cartridge some of which are highly proprietary. A couple of my handguns share magazines but most have unique magazines. I like the magazine the Tombstone comes with, If that was a Glock magazine hanging out at a backward rack angle the gun would be even uglier than it already is. Assuming they did the design right I would much rather have a purpose designed magazine than shoe-horning in a less optimal magazine just to have commonality. Again setting the pistol/carbine pairing aside as I have never found that useful despite having put a pair together...
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It just starts to get silly eventually when you have 10 or 20 handguns and several rifles that all need 2-5 mags each. Pretty soon you have $1500 worth of magazines that are almost indistinguishable from each other.

And of course the real reason for proprietary mags is so that they can charge $35 each for a mag that you have to buy from them, instead of just using a $12 uzi or glock mag people can get anywhere.
 
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Perfect example I have a Star Model PD from the 70's which is a 1911 inspired 45 acp pistol made in Spain. The magazines are the exact same length and height as an officer size 1911 mag and the mag catch cutout is even in the exact same place, but they made the magazine body .020" wider so that a 1911 magazine won't engage the mag catch. Why? Because screw you, buy our magazines!
 
.45Coltguy said:
"Why, they can't co-exist"? I'm sure they could. My point is, the more "tactical" looking a lever rifle is, the anti's will be all over it. And not in a good way.
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All you are doing is displaying an extreme naively towards RKBA

again ALL politicians hate your ability to own firearms. Some say they don’t because it serves their purpose to get re-elected. But I assure you that they would rather you were disarmed and completely pacified.

that’s ANY repeating firearms

just as the late bill ruger discovered wood isn’t a magical talisman to keep the gun ban away. We get it you are a 0 effort gun owner when it comes to keeping the antis at bay and you self rationalize it by convincing yourself the guns you like = helping

Well it doesn’t
 
someguy2800 said:
It just starts to get silly eventually when you have 10 or 20 handguns and several rifles that all need 2-5 mags each. Pretty soon you have $1500 worth of magazines that are almost indistinguishable from each other.

And of course the real reason for proprietary mags is so that they can charge you $35 each for a mag they have to buy from you, instead of just using a $12 uzi or glock mag they can get anywhere.
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I guess my guns are different enough that I don't mind or expect cross compatibility of magazines. I have a heap of magazines and most are unique to just one or two guns in my collection. The biggest common collection is having three XD-40s and ~30 magazines that can be shared (short sub compact mags only work in the sub compact gun). But even though they can share magazine I rarely do. My XD-40 Tactical has 12 magazines I use for competition that are all extended. The XD-40 Service primarily gets used with standard factory magazines. The XD-40 Sub Compact has its special short magazines and standard magazines with grip sleeves. I could certainly swap them around but I rarely need or desire to do so. Even my ARs all have separate magazine batches with little overlap as I have AR's in 5 different chamberings. I don't mind common magazines but if a gun I like uses a new magazine type, assuming it works well (nothings worst than magazine that don't work), then the requirement for new magazines is not going to effect my choice of buying a gun I want.

In fact I am sure I have passed on a few guns because they used a "common" magazine. I do not own any Glock handguns so a PPC that uses Glock magazines does not have any special appeal to me and in fact that becomes a slight negative since I don't see myself ever buying a Glock and would just as well have a different or even proprietary magazine than a Glock mag.
 
someguy2800 said:
Now that's more like it! If I can buy the complete lower for a decent price I will probably buy one. I am building a fast twist 350 legend upper for shooting heavy subsonic suppressed with no gas system. This would be perfect for that.
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The scr lowers are $750 with a Boyds stock, so I'll bet it's in that price range a lot better than the POF offering
 
someguy2800 said:
Perfect example I have a Star Model PD from the 70's which is a 1911 inspired 45 acp pistol made in Spain. The magazines are the exact same length and height as an officer size 1911 mag and the mag catch cutout is even in the exact same place, but they made the magazine body .020" wider so that a 1911 magazine won't engage the mag catch. Why? Because screw you, buy our magazines!
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Considering the price of star mags nowadays, I'd shim the frame somehow and use 1911 mags. Met a guy back in the day that did it. Worked great.
 
Ethan Verity said:
If this was designed for restricted markets, the fact that it is magazine fed defeats that since most states with an AR-15 ban also have magazine limit bans as well. You would have this awkward abomination, and still just be limited to 10 shots. If it were tube fed I bet they could have still packed 20 rounds into it, and also bypass such capacity restrictions.
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1. All repeaters are "magazine fed," I'm assuming you mean detachable magazine?
2. With the specified 16.5" barrel you're only going to get 10 rd. capacity tubular magazine
3. With a detachable box magazine you can reload much faster than you can a tube magazine
4. A magazine of significant length and of that narrow diameter will present significant design complications while also having a free-floated barrel
 
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Mauser lover said:
So, they are proud of the free-float barrel. They are proud of the xs sights. Isn't the purpose of the free-float barrel to make your barrel stay aligned with your sights when pressure is applied to the forend of your stock when you hold it?

Why is the super-important fancy iron sight on the stock?

If I had one I'd put a red dot on it anyway, but if you are going to put expensive iron sights on a rifle, you should do it well.
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1. A free float barrel isn't to guarantee sight-barrel alignment, it's to prevent the pressure of the fore-grip from transferring to the barrel, thus altering the performance of the barrel.
2. A red-dot has the same behavior as having the front and rear site attached to the receiver/rigidly-attached free float tube as the red-dot will maintain true with the receiver and not the barrel
 
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R.W.Dale said:
All you are doing is displaying an extreme naively towards RKBA

again ALL politicians hate your ability to own firearms. Some say they don’t because it serves their purpose to get re-elected. But I assure you that they would rather you were disarmed and completely pacified.

that’s ANY repeating firearms

just as the late bill ruger discovered wood isn’t a magical talisman to keep the gun ban away. We get it you are a 0 effort gun owner when it comes to keeping the antis at bay and you self rationalize it by convincing yourself the guns you like = helping

Well it doesn’t
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Not sure where you conclude all of this opinion I have. I've stated what I think, not what you may believe. Simple as that. Let us not begin a keyboard war over opinions.
 
The desire to have “non-proprietary” magazines is often for cost, availability and reliability. Glock, CZ scorpion, AICS, STANAG, SR25, AK, MP5, etc magazines are widely available from many manufactures, manufactured in several countries, have aftermarket support, lots of material options, are often available locally, are fairly cost effective and generally have all the kinks worked out.

Magazines really aren’t that complicated and generally new designs don’t offer new value or improvement. If POF goes out of business or stops making/supporting this particular model it’s fairly likely that some 3rd party isn’t going to tool up to make a handful of new magazines to support the relatively few number of these rifles in circulation. In this day and age it makes little sense to innovate with a new magazine when so many existing designs already exist.

Why not use the Scorpion or MP5 magazine design on this rifle other than to desire to sell proprietary magazines as an aftermarket profit center? It’s their design and I guess I can see that as a desired source of revenue but unless there is some design issue that makes these magazines somehow superior, I don’t really see any benefit at all. When buying a gun for practical purposes (which really this is considering it really has no collector interest), I’d much rather go with a firearms with a common/existing magazine design with a lot of aftermarket support and availability.

mcb said:
I guess my guns are different enough that I don't mind or expect cross compatibility of magazines. I have a heap of magazines and most are unique to just one or two guns in my collection. The biggest common collection is having three XD-40s and ~30 magazines that can be shared (short sub compact mags only work in the sub compact gun). But even though they can share magazine I rarely do. My XD-40 Tactical has 12 magazines I use for competition that are all extended. The XD-40 Service primarily gets used with standard factory magazines. The XD-40 Sub Compact has its special short magazines and standard magazines with grip sleeves. I could certainly swap them around but I rarely need or desire to do so. Even my ARs all have separate magazine batches with little overlap as I have AR's in 5 different chamberings. I don't mind common magazines but if a gun I like


In fact I am sure I have passed on a few guns because they used a "common" magazine. I do not own any Glock handguns so a PPC that uses Glock magazines does not have any special appeal to me and in fact that becomes a slight negative since I don't see myself ever buying a Glock and would just as well have a different or even proprietary magazine than a Glock mag.
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mcb said:
The hatred for proprietary magazines is puzzling to me. Unless you are specifically trying to put together a pistol carbine pair what does it matter? Even with my ARs I have magazine specific to each cartridge some of which are highly proprietary. A couple of my handguns share magazines but most have unique magazines. I like the magazine the Tombstone comes with, If that was a Glock magazine hanging out at a backward rack angle the gun would be even uglier than it already is. Assuming they did the design right I would much rather have a purpose designed magazine than shoe-horning in a less optimal magazine just to have commonality. Again setting the pistol/carbine pairing aside as I have never found that useful despite having put a pair together...
Click to expand...
 
adcoch1 said:
Considering the price of star mags nowadays, I'd shim the frame somehow and use 1911 mags. Met a guy back in the day that did it. Worked great.
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I did try that using a 8 round full size mag when I bought it and it worked. If I shot it more I would buy a few officer mags and shim them but it came with 3 mags so I'm good. The next thing I want to try is putting the guts from a 7 round mecgar officer mag in the star mag body. Havn't gotten around to trying.
 
ColoradoMinuteMan said:
The desire to have “non-proprietary” magazines is often for cost, availability and reliability. Glock, CZ scorpion, AICS, STANAG, SR25, AK, MP5, etc magazines are widely available from many manufactures, manufactured in several countries, have aftermarket support, lots of material options, are often available locally, are fairly cost effective and generally have all the kinks worked out. Magazines really aren’t that complicated and generally new designs don’t offer new value or improvement. If POF goes out of business or stops making/supporting this particular model it’s fairly likely that some 3rd party isn’t going to roll up to make a handful of new magazines to support the relatively few number of these rifles in circulation. In this day and age it makes little sense to innovate with a new magazine when so many existing designs already exist. Why not use the Scorpion or MP5 magazine design on this rifle other than to desire to sell proprietary magazines as an aftermarket profit center? It’s their design and I guess I can see that as a desired source of revenue but unless there is some design issue that makes these magazines somehow superior, I don’t really see any benefit at all. When buying a gun for practical purposes (which really this is considering it really has no collector interest), I’d much rather go with a firearms with a common/existing magazine design with a lot of aftermarket support and availability.
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I hear you and don't necessarily disagree but at the same time its far from a deal killer for me personally. I have some guns that use some strange magazines so one more does not bother me in the least if its a gun I want. I also have plenty of guns that use "standard" magazines for those unlikely times when that become an asset.
 
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