A must-read by Peggy Noonan

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Lost Conservatives of America
Group meeting

Me- "Hi name is xd9fan..."
Group- "Hi xd9fan"
Me- "hmm yeah for me...My letting go from the GOP was hmm like Peggy said...at Katrina"
Therapist- "Thanks you xd9fan please have a seat.......our next new member is......"
 
Now conservatives and Republicans are going to have to win back their party. They are going to have to break from those who have already broken from them. This will require courage, serious thinking and an ability to do what psychologists used to call letting go. This will be painful, but it's time. It's more than time.

A good editorial. She states many points that I have made on THR like a broken
record since my return from Iraq. Keep in mind that I went to Iraq as a neocon-
Fortress-America-the-GOP-can-do-no-wrong kind of conservative. However,
this is not all about Bush. Many are correct that he has that exclusive inner
circle that he listens to, but they in turn should also have their own outside
influences.

Like I've said before, this is a leadership issue but it does not rest with one man.
I've run into these same attitudes at the local and State levels. Sometimes we
are so minimized at the lower levels so as to feel anything we do is useless.
Bush does not make this happen when it comes to our local GOP leadership.

For us to win back our party will require a lot of people to look in the mirror and
question their own monolithic thinking when it comes to leadership styles.
Quite frankly, it has become to ingrained as to become socialist in nature and
they can't even see it. :barf:

That is true denial and certainly does require professional help.
 
Good article Peggy. Okay. Um...now what?
Who can really rally the GOP?
The only one that comes to my mind is the affable Fred Thompson. He's got that command presence and "aw shucks" demeanor that just seems right.
 
Good article Peggy. Okay. Um...now what?
Who can really rally the GOP?
The only one that comes to my mind is the affable Fred Thompson. He's got that command presence and "aw shucks" demeanor that just seems right.

Do integrity and principle have nothing to do with the presidency anymore? If "presence" and "demeanor" are all this party and country need, then I'm taking our problems way too seriously.
 
Do integrity and principle have nothing to do with the presidency anymore? If "presence" and "demeanor" are all this party and country need, then I'm taking our problems way too seriously.

Are you suggesting that if one has a good presence and demeanor he can't have integrity and principals? I suggest to you that both are needed when leading the greatest nation on earth, or campaigning to lead the greatest nation on earth.
 
Do integrity and principle have nothing to do with the presidency anymore?

+1

[sarcasm] if some little known senator walked up on stage and quietly proposed that maybe if we were a little more like the founding fathers advised us to be, and commented on how far our liberties have gone the way of the dodo i would probably vote for him instead of the 'wow he looks like a president'-guy i was too uninformed of and voted for in the past.[/sarcasm]

oh wait - we have had that happen already
Ron Paul in '08.

[/shameless plug]
 
Another conservative writer,and former Bush supporter, Rod Dreher, comments and expands on Noonan's article. Dreher argues that many other conservatives should have woken up earlier to the disaster that is Bush; a disaster not only for the country but for the conservative movement.


http://www.beliefnet.com/blogs/crunchycon/2007/06/noonan-to-bush-its-over.html

Friday, June 01, 2007
Noonan to Bush: It's over
Powerful Peggy Noonan column today, calling on conservatives to throw the president overboard. Actually, she says he's thrown us overboard, so let's act like it. Excerpt:


For almost three years, arguably longer, conservative Bush supporters have felt like sufferers of battered wife syndrome. You don't like endless gushing spending, the kind that assumes a high and unstoppable affluence will always exist, and the tax receipts will always flow in? Too bad! You don't like expanding governmental authority and power? Too bad. You think the war was wrong or is wrong? Too bad.

But on immigration it has changed from "Too bad" to "You're bad."

The president has taken to suggesting that opponents of his immigration bill are unpatriotic--they "don't want to do what's right for America." His ally Sen. Lindsey Graham has said, "We're gonna tell the bigots to shut up." On Fox last weekend he vowed to "push back." Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff suggested opponents would prefer illegal immigrants be killed; Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez said those who oppose the bill want "mass deportation." Former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson said those who oppose the bill are "anti-immigrant" and suggested they suffer from "rage" and "national chauvinism."

Why would they speak so insultingly, with such hostility, of opponents who are concerned citizens? And often, though not exclusively, concerned conservatives? It is odd, but it is of a piece with, or a variation on, the "Too bad" governing style. And it is one that has, day by day for at least the past three years, been tearing apart the conservative movement.


And this:


What I came in time to believe is that the great shortcoming of this White House, the great thing it is missing, is simple wisdom. Just wisdom--a sense that they did not invent history, that this moment is not all there is, that man has lived a long time and there are things that are true of him, that maturity is not the same thing as cowardice, that personal loyalty is not a good enough reason to put anyone in charge of anything, that the way it works in politics is a friend becomes a loyalist becomes a hack, and actually at this point in history we don't need hacks.


It's called hubris, and now nemesis is upon the White House, and the Republican Party. Which of the GOP presidential candidates will be the first to break decisively and boldly with the president? Will it do him a bit of good, or will the public read it as opportunism, inasmuch as he didn't break with or criticize Bush when it stood to cost him something?

The sad thing for John McCain is he really could have been the credible anti-Bush. Everybody knows how much he and Bush can't stand each other. But McCain stuck by Bush on the war, which has proved Bush's undoing -- and will prove McCain's. Now he will never be president, because of Bush.

I've got no strong objection to Noonan's analysis, and indeed I'm thrilled to see it. But it seems to me that we conservatives need to avoid falling into a historical revisionism that allows us to portray ourselves as passive victims of a feckless president. Not saying she does this, but I think as the last wheel comes off this presidency, and the GOP comes to grips with what this presidency has meant for the Republican Party and the conservative movement, there will be a strong temptation to resist owning up to our own complicity. Success has a thousand fathers, after all, and failure is an orphan. This failure is not President Bush's alone. The Republican Party owns it. The conservative movement, with some exceptions, owns it.

Few of us stood up to Bush when he took us to this disastrous war in Iraq. Few, if any, stood up to him over his foolish support for Rumsfeld, long after it became obvious what a disaster Rumsfeld was. Few, if any, stood up to him over his amassing of power in the executive branch. Few, if any, stood up to him on the spending. Few, if any, stood up to him over the massive prescription drug benefit. Few stood up to him over the political hackery pervading his administration, which became distressingly obvious during Katrina (indeed, there are still Republicans now who insist that the corrupt politicization of the Department of Justice is a non-issue, because these people "serve at the president's pleasure"). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the first time any of us stood up in significant numbers, and with full-throated voice, against the president was over the Harriet Miers debacle. And then we fell silent again, for the most part.

So yes, by all means let's turn our backs on this failed presidency, and save what we can, while we can. But let's not kid ourselves: Bush has failed conservatives, yes, but we have also failed ourselves. It doesn't take much courage to stand up for conservative principle to a president as weak as this one has become. It would have taken real courage to stand up for conservative principle in 2002, 2003, 2004, even early 2005. How many did? I know I didn't -- not until Katrina and Miers, which came late in 2005. If we're looking to blame someone for the failure of Republican government and the conservative crack-up, look to the White House, yes, and look to the late, unlamented Republican Congress. But also look to the conservative talk show hosts, the conservative columnists, and finally, in the mirror. The only way we're going to rebuild after the present and coming political shattering is through honest reckoning, and taking responsibility for what we've done. It is tempting to blame Bush for everything. But it's not fair, and it's not honest. Bush is today who he always was. The difference is we conservatives pretty much loved the guy -- when he was a winner.
 
Peggy Noonan has been one of Bush's biggest supporters through most of his Presidency. Like myself and many others, enough is enough, and this editorial does a great job in laying out the discontent and outright disgust many conservatives are feeling right now with this President. His confidence in this stinker of a bill defines "sellout."
 
Bush is laying the ground for an ungovernable America. A lot of us believe that is really the Grand Plan. He and his do not believe in governance according to the Founding Fathers. Never did, never will.

It wouldn't surprise me if Bush is forced to resign before the end of his term. All it will take is one more scandal on the back of the general disgust with his Presiidency.
 
Good article Peggy. Okay. Um...now what?
Who can really rally the GOP?
The only one that comes to my mind is the affable Fred Thompson. He's got that command presence and "aw shucks" demeanor that just seems right.

This is my point with Fred Thompson, he's just current GOP....recycled.

The "OK now what" is up to the PARTY NOT the voters. The party has to prove to the base (which if they do it right will take years) that they are sorry.

And they have to SHOW.... NOT JUST TALK that they are getting back to the conservative platform. Voters have to SEE this in ACTION.

With Immigration.......it SHOWS me that the party to just not willing to be a conservative, limited Govt. party.

Backing Ron Paul would be a hell of a start that they are ACTING serious about limited Govt. Thompson has no record on this compared to Ron Paul.

Thompson is just more feel good symbolism over substance. Presence and "aw shucks" demeanor are nice for a guy thats dating your daughter.

Fred Voted YES on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001) More Big Govt. social crap.

For a fallen party to prove to me they are serious about getting their base back..........I want someone with decades of action taking the bows and arrows (even from his own getting fat-cat party) putting principle first.

This fallen party seriously NEEDS this. The inside the party fat-cat neo-cons will go for Fred because he just is not a threat to them.
 
a worldwide ban on gun ownership (already started in Brazil, Mexico, and Canada),

Goodness. Just to set the record straight, Canada does not ban gun ownership. It bans handguns. It licenses other guns. But it does not in fact ban them, and IIRC, allows importation of some rifles that are illegal in the U.S.

If you're going to wear a tinfoil hat, at least get your facts straight.

Springmom
 
It bans handguns.

No it doesnt. I have a Canadian friend who has a handgun permit. It is not that hard to get them, almost a 'shall issue' situation.

I dont know the laws of Brazil, but a ban attempted failed by a wide margin. That's good news - so I dont see how the OP said that has 'already started' in Brazil.
Mexico I believe you can own things from the M1 carbine on down in caliber.

Way too much tin foil hatery on this board sometimes (not you springmom but the OP of the 'bans' comment)
 
I say this as a long time admirer of Peggy Noonan (back when she was a Reagan speechwriter) but I think the conservative pundits who are now, finally, turning against Bush should give some credit to those conservatives who saw it coming all along. That means folks like Pat Buchanan and his magazine http://www.amconmag.com/, Ron Paul, the columnists Paul Craig Roberts (another old Reagan conservative) and Charley Reese, and many, many others.

These real conservatives were labeled "leftists", "pacifists","anti-american", "liberals", "naive", "isolationists", "blame america first", "sympathizers of Islamo-fascism", etc. by the Bush supporters and the neo-con defamation machine. You still hear echoes of this currently on this board by those who despise Ron Paul for not going along with the neo-con project.
 
I say this as a long time admirer of Peggy Noonan (back when she was a Reagan speechwriter) but I think the conservative pundits who are now, finally, turning against Bush should give some credit to those conservatives who saw it coming all along. That means folks like Pat Buchanan and his magazine http://www.amconmag.com/, Ron Paul, the columnists Paul Craig Roberts (another old Reagan conservative) and Charley Reese etc.

I hate to say it, but Reagan I think is what brought on the neocon dominance of the Republican party. (while Reagan himself was not neo-conservative) Remember the Reagan Democrats?

If the Republican Party where to revert to its pre-Nixon state youd have me as a member. But Bush isnt enough to get it to happen.
 
Reagan may have had neo-con advisers but it was Bush who turned over his whole administration to the neo-cons. One of the best articles detailing the neo-con role is by Pat Buchanan, see below:

A long article but well worth reading.



http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html

The full link is above; I've pasted several important sections below.

March 24, 2003 issue
Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative



Whose War?

A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.

by Patrick J. Buchanan


The War Party may have gotten its war. But it has also gotten something it did not bargain for. Its membership lists and associations have been exposed and its motives challenged. In a rare moment in U.S. journalism, Tim Russert put this question directly to Richard Perle: “Can you assure American viewers ... that we’re in this situation against Saddam Hussein and his removal for American security interests? And what would be the link in terms of Israel?”

Suddenly, the Israeli connection is on the table, and the War Party is not amused. Finding themselves in an unanticipated firefight, our neoconservative friends are doing what comes naturally, seeking student deferments from political combat by claiming the status of a persecuted minority group. People who claim to be writing the foreign policy of the world superpower, one would think, would be a little more manly in the schoolyard of politics. Not so.

Former Wall Street Journal editor Max Boot kicked off the campaign. When these “Buchananites toss around ‘neoconservative’—and cite names like Wolfowitz and Cohen—it sometimes sounds as if what they really mean is ‘Jewish conservative.’” Yet Boot readily concedes that a passionate attachment to Israel is a “key tenet of neoconservatism.” He also claims that the National Security Strategy of President Bush “sounds as if it could have come straight out from the pages of Commentary magazine, the neocon bible.” (For the uninitiated, Commentary, the bible in which Boot seeks divine guidance, is the monthly of the American Jewish Committee.)

David Brooks of the Weekly Standard wails that attacks based on the Israel tie have put him through personal hell: “Now I get a steady stream of anti-Semitic screeds in my e-mail, my voicemail and in my mailbox. ... Anti-Semitism is alive and thriving. It’s just that its epicenter is no longer on the Buchananite Right, but on the peace-movement left.”


Indeed, it is the charge of “anti-Semitism” itself that is toxic. For this venerable slander is designed to nullify public discourse by smearing and intimidating foes and censoring and blacklisting them and any who would publish them. Neocons say we attack them because they are Jewish. We do not. We attack them because their warmongering threatens our country, even as it finds a reliable echo in Ariel Sharon.

And this time the boys have cried “wolf” once too often. It is not working. As Kaus notes, Kaplan’s own New Republic carries Harvard professor Stanley Hoffman. In writing of the four power centers in this capital that are clamoring for war, Hoffman himself describes the fourth thus:

And, finally, there is a loose collection of friends of Israel, who believe in the identity of interests between the Jewish state and the United States. … These analysts look on foreign policy through the lens of one dominant concern: Is it good or bad for Israel? Since that nation’s founding in 1948, these thinkers have never been in very good odor at the State Department, but now they are well ensconced in the Pentagon, around such strategists as Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Douglas Feith.

“If Stanley Hoffman can say this,” asks Kaus, “why can’t Chris Matthews?” Kaus also notes that Kaplan somehow failed to mention the most devastating piece tying the neoconservatives to Sharon and his Likud Party.




The Neoconservatives

Who are the neoconservatives? The first generation were ex-liberals, socialists, and Trotskyites, boat-people from the McGovern revolution who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism’s long march to power with Ronald Reagan in 1980.

A neoconservative, wrote Kevin Phillips back then, is more likely to be a magazine editor than a bricklayer. Today, he or she is more likely to be a resident scholar at a public policy institute such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) or one of its clones like the Center for Security Policy or the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). As one wag writes, a neocon is more familiar with the inside of a think tank than an Abrams tank.

Almost none came out of the business world or military, and few if any came out of the Goldwater campaign. The heroes they invoke are Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Harry Truman, Martin Luther King, and Democratic Senators Henry “Scoop” Jackson (Wash.) and Pat Moynihan (N.Y.).

All are interventionists who regard Stakhanovite support of Israel as a defining characteristic of their breed. Among their luminaries are Jeane Kirkpatrick, Bill Bennett, Michael Novak, and James Q. Wilson.

Their publications include the Weekly Standard, Commentary, the New Republic, National Review, and the editorial page of the Wall Street Journal. Though few in number, they wield disproportionate power through control of the conservative foundations and magazines, through their syndicated columns, and by attaching themselves to men of power.




Cui Bono? For whose benefit these endless wars in a region that holds nothing vital to America save oil, which the Arabs must sell us to survive? Who would benefit from a war of civilizations between the West and Islam?

Answer: one nation, one leader, one party. Israel, Sharon, Likud.

Indeed, Sharon has been everywhere the echo of his acolytes in America. In February 2003, Sharon told a delegation of Congressmen that, after Saddam’s regime is destroyed, it is of “vital importance” that the United States disarm Iran, Syria, and Libya.


What these neoconservatives seek is to conscript American blood to make the world safe for Israel. They want the peace of the sword imposed on Islam and American soldiers to die if necessary to impose it.

Let us conclude. The Israeli people are America’s friends and have a right to peace and secure borders. We should help them secure these rights. As a nation, we have made a moral commitment, endorsed by half a dozen presidents, which Americans wish to honor, not to permit these people who have suffered much to see their country overrun and destroyed. And we must honor this commitment.

But U.S. and Israeli interests are not identical. They often collide, and when they do, U.S. interests must prevail. Moreover, we do not view the Sharon regime as “America’s best friend.”

Since the time of Ben Gurion, the behavior of the Israeli regime has been Jekyll and Hyde. In the 1950s, its intelligence service, the Mossad, had agents in Egypt blow up U.S. installations to make it appear the work of Cairo, to destroy U.S. relations with the new Nasser government. During the Six Day War, Israel ordered repeated attacks on the undefended USS Liberty that killed 34 American sailors and wounded 171 and included the machine-gunning of life rafts. This massacre was neither investigated nor punished by the U.S. government in an act of national cravenness.

Though we have given Israel $20,000 for every Jewish citizen, Israel refuses to stop building the settlements that are the cause of the Palestinian intifada. Likud has dragged our good name through the mud and blood of Ramallah, ignored Bush’s requests to restrain itself, and sold U.S. weapons technology to China, including the Patriot, the Phoenix air-to-air missile, and the Lavi fighter, which is based on F-16 technology. Only direct U.S. intervention blocked Israel’s sale of our AWACS system.

Israel suborned Jonathan Pollard to loot our secrets and refuses to return the documents, which would establish whether or not they were sold to Moscow. When Clinton tried to broker an agreement at Wye Plantation between Israel and Arafat, Bibi Netanyahu attempted to extort, as his price for signing, release of Pollard, so he could take this treasonous snake back to Israel as a national hero.

Do the Brits, our closest allies, behave like this?

Though we have said repeatedly that we admire much of what this president has done, he will not deserve re-election if he does not jettison the neoconservatives’ agenda of endless wars on the Islamic world that serve only the interests of a country other than the one he was elected to preserve and protect.

March 24, 2003 issue
Copyright © 2003 The American Conservative
 
IMO as a Repub it was hard to criticize Bush Admin for two reasons. One was the the continuous, vocal, venomous and irrational hostility to him from people on the left. The second was our involvement in the War. These led, in my case, to a reluctance to hold Bush and the Rep Congress to account to avoid giving aid and comfort to our domestic and foreign enemies. So even though I had doubts and disagreements I was reluctant to add to the criticism from fear that Bush/Cong would roll over and the loonies and the terrorists would prevail. My bad.

What to do about it now?
In addition to writing, calling, emailing all your state and national gop senators and reps there are two small things that can make a statement right now by hitting 'em in the pocketbook:

1. If you gave to rep national comm this past year, ask for a refund: Guy on radio this morning called to say that he got the number of the Republican National Committee from their website, called them, determined that he could receive a refund of his contrhe ibutions for the last year and directed that he be refunded, giving his reason (current immigration bill) and stating that he would give no more until GOP got it right on the issue.

2. When you receive fund raising mail from RNC, don't just not donate, send a statement of your opposition to current policies in their post paid envelope.

If every conservative gop supporter did those two things, I think they would pay attention.
 
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