A new CQB optic - would you buy it?

[Greywolf]

A certain manufacturer of nice quality, inexpensive scopes is trying to find out if there would be enough interest in a CQB style optic to warrant manufacture. Here are the details:

Made in Japan, with HIGH quality Japanese lenses.

1-4x, with 20mm objective. CQB style reticle that is ranging as well (very cool). Lit reticle, of course.

Price point around $300 or less.

Eye relief 3.75"-4.0"

Here are some pics of about what it will look like, and the CQB reticle as well. The manufacturer is trying to decide whether to take the dot to 1 MOA.

What are your thoughts? Would you buy this optic?

 

[Chris Rhines]

A scope like that would sell like hotcakes with the 3-Gun crowd.

For $300, I'd buy one just to have as a backup.

- Chris

 

[Greywolf]

I thought the same thing. I know I would buy it. I have an IOR Valdada 1.1x-4x26mm scope with the circle reticle, but I don't like the reticle (too small at 1x) and would prefer a ranging bullet drop reticle like this one for .223 - and the optics apparantly are out of this world - very bright, high quality.

 

[444]

Interesting.
I wouldn't buy one, but it is interesting.

 

[Greywolf]

What I love about it is the bullet drop in combination with a "two-eyes open" reticle (at 1x of course), plus the ability to get some zoom as well. I've always been in favor of these types of optics, especially for our troops.

 

[444]

Our troops have an optic like this.
The Trijicon ACOG TA31.
It is not variable power, but it accomplishes the same thing IMO in a simplier manner.
I realize the ACOG costs far more than 300, but I am just saying......

 

[Preacherman]

Provided that it was of quality manufacture, and didn't go belly-up after a few hundred rounds, I'd buy one.

 

[Harold Mayo]

I'd buy...as long as the batteries were long-lasting. I like the idea. I've been following the discussion at AR15.com about this class of optic. As of right now, no one (with the possible exception of the high-priced S&B) has EXACTLY the optic that I'd want.

 

[roscoe]

Durability seems like the main issue.

 

[Zak Smith]

Eye relief should be closer to 2.5" for an AR15. The TA31 is 1.5".

 

[Greywolf]

I prefer longer eye relief for many reasons myself.

 

[Chris Rhines]

Eye relief should be closer to 2.5" for an AR15. The TA31 is 1.5".

Only if you shoot nose-to-charging handle, Zak. Many people don't.

- Chris

 

[LeadPumper]

--1-4x, with 20mm objective. CQB style reticle that is ranging as well (very cool). Lit reticle, of course.

Price point around $300 or less.

Eye relief 3.75"-4.0"--

Am I interested? Yes...

Would I buy it? Maybe...

Depends on the final product, but it looks promising. Please continue.

-LeadPumper

 

[Zach S]

Only if you shoot nose-to-charging handle, Zak. Many people don't.

I do, that's the main reason I dont have a scope on mine.

However, the above scope does look interesting. If it were in production, I'd definately keep it in mind when I decide to add one.

 

[HankB]

At 4x, the exit pupil of a scope with a 20mm objective will only be 5mm - it should be at least 7mm to make use of a fully dark-adapted pupil. Larger exit pupils are even better - not because they'll increase the apparent brightness (they won't) but because they make lateral positioning of the eye less critical, which IMHO is a good thing for a CQB optic.

When the illumination system is "ON" is any light visible from the objective (target side) end of the 'scope?

Type of batteries, life, and availability might be an issue.

Durability - will it hold up to more than .223 recoil? If a .300 Mag will break it right away, there's a good chance a .223 will eventually.

Waterproof?

What .223 load are the graduations optimized for?

Is $300 the projected "street price" or MSRP?

 

[VaughnT]

I'd buy one if the quality is there.

As much as I'd like an ACOG, I just can't afford that girl.

 

[Zak Smith]

I think NTCH-similar positions are even more useful with telestocks becoming common on almost all configurations of AR15s for multi-person compatability and shooting in cramped quarters or with body armor. One of the easiest ways to get "lost" looking for the reticle is to be too far up on it. Even if you shoot an inch back from the CH, 4" of eye relief still requires the ocular lens to be 1.5" forward on the receiver, which still requires a more complicated mounting solution. YMMV. I'm done ranting on eye relief here.

The point about exit pupil is good. Besides the issue of brightness, a larger exit pupil (even larger than 8mm) will be easier to acquire at speed, in awkward positions, or with your eye off-axis from the scope.

-z

 

[thereisnospoon]

Would I Buy one?

No i wouldn't buy one, I'd buy a truckload and sell them like hotcakes at the next gunshow....especially if they would also cam one for the .308 and wholesale around 185.00 or so.

What are the chances of becoming a distirbutor????

A little longer eye relief would make a great scout scope in my opinion...

 

[Correia]

Very interesting. Especially at that price point. I sell EOtech, Trijicon, Leopold, and Aimpoint. I would also be interested in more information about this optic as it comes available, so please note me down and send me some dealer info when you have it.

Personal opinion, I would prefer the 1 MOA dot myself. But 2 would still be great. That's one reason I like the EOtech so much, is since it has a big circle around the center dot, I don't need a big obscuring reddot in the center.

I can tell you right now that there is a market for a $300 optic with these features. The only other optics that I'm aware of that have the low magnification CQB reticle, and adjust up to 4X are the Leopold CQB and that one from Valdada. Both cost a whole lot more. If this scope had a good name/rep, I'm betting I could sell a bunch of them.

-Larry
www.fbmginc.com

 

[mattf7184]

Im interested. Would rather see a 1MOA dot and eye relief adjusted as well.

 

[444]

IMO, a 1 MOA dot and a CQB optic do not go hand in hand.

If we were talking about a precision optic, then it is a different story, but we arn't.

 

[Correia]

444, disagree. EOtech has my favorite reticle. 1 MOA dot, but at close range you use the great big circle anyway. Plus I find that I can make 200 yard+ shots with the EOtech, and it doesn't obscure very much target at that range. Of course with an adjustable you can turn up the magnification for 200, but it is nice to be able to make quick snap shots out to 200 with out messing around with your optic.

 

[444]

I know this has been cussed and discussed many times over the years, but......
Appearently, a lot of people zero their dot optic so that the point of impact is in the center of the dot.
IMO, this is a mistake.
I think, your zero should be at the very tip/top of the dot. This gives you a precise point of aim for a real precision shot, but for an up close shot at COM, just seeing the dot there is plenty close enough.
I shoot an Aimpoint ML2 with a 4 MOA dot. I have no problem at all making shots out to 400 yards using that optic. I have regularly hit pepper poppers at 400 yards in formal classes at both Gunsite and Frontsight. At our local club, we have a steel plate at somewhere around 380 yards. It is about a foot wide and maybe 2 feet long. I can hit that all day and night using a rest and an Aimpoint.
Here we are discussing the idea that a dot, HALF that size is too big ?
Again, I think one problem Larry is that you are discussing 200 yard shots while using a CQB (CLOSE quarters battle) sight. Close means fast. Fast means easy to see dot. CQB isn't about precision, it is about getting shots COM as fast as possible (handspan sized groups as fast as you can pull the trigger). In a CQB environment, how big do you think a 2 MOA dot is going to be ? How much of a human chest is that 2 MOA going to obscure ?

 

[Correia]

Doug, I'm thinking fast out to the 200 yards. I'm a 3gunner. That's what I do, so my perspective is colored by that background. I agree with you in that at CQB distances all I need to do is shoot a group the size of a basketball really really fast, and I could do that with a 10 MOA dot. However what I'm getting at is that at the CQB distances I use the large outer ring (65 MOA on an EO) and just put the target approximately in the middle of that. I've done a 6 shot Bill drill at 75 yards in 1.5 that way.

I'm not saying that you can't do really good work with an Aimpoint and its 4moa dot. The Aimpoint is a heck on an optic, but I figure that if I'm going to be using the big ring at conversational distance, I want a smaller, more precise dot for when I need to get out there and hit difficult targets.

 

[444]

Right, I know where you are coming from, but possibly you are trying to turn this "CQB" optic into an optic that would be ideal for three gun ?
Again, for CQB I can only see the small dot working against you.