A new Lee press purchase?

[kmw1954]

Hello folks I thought I would ask this question here because of the other threads concerning the Lee Pro 1000 and the new Lee Breech Lock Pro and get some honest feedback that is actually on topic..

I am looking at adding either a new Breech Lock Pro or a new 4 hole Value turret press to what I have already which is a Value 3 hole Turret with Auto Advance and a Lee Pro 1000. I use both of these presses regularly and they serve me well for what I am doing. All I load is pistol and all I have been using are Lee 3 die pistol set dies. So I do not need the extra strength or headspace the LCT offers.

The reason for looking at the new press is because I recently added a Tanfoglio Witness 45acp to the fold and the chamber on this gun is so tight that the only way I can get reliable seating is by using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. This die has 100% solved the seating/chambering problem. The problem is that the 2 presses I have do not allow the use of a 4th die in progression. Also because I already have everything to do this as far as dies, measures, shell holders/plates all I would need is to add the 4 hole press. Be it the new Value turret of the Breech Lock. The new Value press I can get for under $90.00 and the Breech with a shell plate for under $125.00.. The press will most likely be dedicated to the 45acp round as everything else I have runs just fine with 3 dies..

 

[greyling22]

I'd take a stab the breech lock pro if I was doing any sort of volume. I haven't used it, though it looks very promising. I have the 4 hole classic turret and while it works great, it's slow.

But I'll be honest, I love everything Lee except their progressives. I had a pro1000 fought a loadmaster for years before finally buying something much more expensive that I love and was worth every penny. But I'm not going to say what it is, because I just hate it when you ask A or B and people chime in "C for lots more money". But the breech lock pro looks nice and doesn't have the primer feed issues the loadmaster had. I'd buy it and sell the pro1k. Maybe the 3 hole turret too.

 

[kmw1954]

greyling22 thanks and I appreciate leaving "C" out of this! I really do.

I actually appreciate the Pro 1000 for what it is and what it can do. It is a very simple mechanical tool. Only really one adjustment on this press that can be made. And that is a simple screw to adjust timing. If it wasn't for the Witness I could continue to load the 45acp with 3 dies on the Pro 1000 and not have a single issue with doing it.

I can see where the turret will be slower than the what I'm going to call a mostly progressive press. But at the same time the Safety Prime is used on the turret presses all the time and even though I am not having a priming problem on the Pro 1000 I understand many do and the Safety Prime should alleviate some of that.

Also as a dedicated press for the 45acp I can say that currently the wife and I are only shooting about 2000 rounds per year. Most of what we shoot is 9mm and 380 because I can load it so cheap. For those that don't know the 380 is cheaper to load for than the 9mm. Bullets are cheaper and it uses a little less powder.

 

[troy fairweather]

lee makes good stuff for the money most complicates u see are most time the users messing thinks up id go for it. when i get my pistol permit id like to get some for 9mm and 45 or if i get a ruger pcc.

 

[greg_r]

I am a fan of the Lee Turret press. So by default I would choose the Value Turret.

However I am intrigued by the Breech Lock Pro, and if I were just going to load handgun cartridges like you are, I do believe I would give the Breech Lock Pro a try.

I am however going to mention an option "C", just because it does fit into what you already have. A 4 hole conversion kit for your 3 hole turret. I had a 3 hole manual index press and converted it to a 4 hole auto advance, a primer chute from Titan Reloading completed the conversion so now my spent primers fall through the bench into a receptical. About $30 for the conversion and now I load all my 38spl, 380, 9mm Luger, 45acp, 300 BLK and 5.56 on this press. Have an extra turret set up for each cartridge. Works great. The parts for the conversion are available directly from Lee. The kits have unfortunately I been discontinued.

https://www.titanreloading.com/titan-reloading-products/titan-primer-chute

 

[ray15]

I think the choice boils down to your aspirations for production rate. I use the Lee Classic Turret, and with practice and some technique produce 100 handgun rounds in about 23 minutes. I think you can beat that by about 10 minutes with the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro without undue effort. Users of the ABLP report it requires less physical effort as well. At a certain level of production the additional automation is necessary.

I agree with greg, it may make sense to convert your three hole turret.

 

[WestKentucky]

I played with a value turret on display recently at Bass Pro. I was impressed. It appears to be a solid machine for anything that will fit although short bottleneck rifle rounds may be tough to resize. That machine is a shrunken version of the LCT so there’s really nothing to prove on it. Honestly if I hadn’t bought the LCT I would have bought the value turret immediately.

 

[kidneyboy]

I think the choice boils down to your aspirations for production rate. I use the Lee Classic Turret, and with practice and some technique produce 100 handgun rounds in about 23 minutes. I think you can beat that by about 10 minutes with the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro without undue effort. Users of the ABLP report it requires less physical effort as well. At a certain level of production the additional automation is necessary.
.

^^^^^^^^
This

I reload about 12000 to 15000 rounds per year on my LCT. Usually 100 rounds at a time 5 or 6 days per week (I'm retired).

 

[ATLDave]

What volume of 45ACP are you shooting/planning to shoot?

I use a Dillon 650 for my USPSA gamer load, and load everything else on a Lee Classic Turret. The Turret is not as fast as a progressive, but faster and less annoying than single-stage loading, and is adequate to allow me to fairly painlessly keep up with the lower-volume cartridges I shoot (including 45 ACP).

 

[kmw1954]

Thanks you everyone for the replies! What it is, is that I am having a hard time deciding because production speed really isn't an issue here other than one press will drop a complete round with each pull of the handle, the other won't. As I am only loading about 2000 rounds per year or only 100 or 200 per session I can easily do this on either press. As also stated if it wasn't for the Witness I'd be perfectly happy sticking with what I have, no need for a 4 hole press when I'm mostly only using 3 dies. Right now I'm loading the 45acp on both presses, depending on how many I plan to do and then I'm running them thru a single stage press with the FCD to finish them up, which is a pain and a waste of movement.

On of the reasons I haven't bought a Breech Lock press is because following the 2 threads here on Unboxing and Repairs I see many people are still reporting problems that Lee is still sorting out with this new press and it has me thinking I should hold off for a bit. But I am leaning towards on of these presses just to do the 45acp on.

 

[ray15]

I'm like kidneyboy in that I load 12-15K a year on the LCT. But I have considered an ABLP and a case feeder just to deprime with. I'm OK with the slower rate of the turret presses and actually like the exercise the LCT imposes.

I have heard people complain about the Safety Prime on the ABLP, which doesn't surprise me as I was never able to make it productive on my LCT. So no difference there. I have also heard some complaints about deflection, but I have my doubts that would be a deal-breaker in practice. But like many things, it's possible to make a perfectly plausible and well-reasoned rationale for either route - the choice is really up to you.

 

[Toprudder]

I have a steel frame Witness 45 that is one of my favorites.

I can say this, though, I would highly recommend getting the Classic turret over the Value turret. It isn't much more $$$ but is more solidly built. The one reason I got the LCT is because I started wet tumbling, and therefore I was decapping all the brass before I tumble. I had used a Lee Challenger single stage press for a while, but that one spits the primers out of the side of the ram, above the base of the press. As a result, all the primer residue was getting all over the ram, which required more frequent cleaning. Seems I was having to clean/lube every few hundred rounds. You may have the same problem with the Value turret. The Classic turret, OTOH, drops the spent primers down through the middle of the ram and out of the bottom. I use a straw under the shellholder so that the primers and residue drop straight down, so I don't have to have a primer ram installed in the ram. I don't know how many thousands of cases I have deprimed on that press (maybe 30-40k) and haven't really had to clean/lube it, though I have wiped it and added some lube a few times.

Whether you get the new Lee progressive press, or a turret press, would really depend on what quantity of ammo you need to load. With the press mounted powder measure, and primer installed, I can easily crank out over 200 rounds per hour. I find myself using it mainly in single-stage mode and doing batch loading, but I am not doing high quantity loading on it, either. I typically do 100 rounds or less at a time on the turret. (I have a Dillon 550 that I use for my large production ammo, typically 300-500 rounds at a time).

 

[kmw1954]

Toprudder I love my large frame metal Witness 45 also. Have also shot a friends metal Compact Witness 45 and it is sweet!

Back to the press. The new Value press is not the same as the old Red base press. Take a look as it's been greatly upgraded for this year. https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...et-press/lee-4-hole-turret-press-w-auto-index

 

[Toprudder]

Back to the press. The new Value press is not the same as the old Red base press. Take a look as it's been greatly upgraded for this year. https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-...et-press/lee-4-hole-turret-press-w-auto-index

Ahh! I had forgotten all about that. I hear "Value Turret" and I think of the old red-based version. I see they have a good spent primer system on this one.

 

[Bolson]

I own the LCT and the ABLP, if I had to pick one, it'd be the LCT. Its output easily keeps up with my needs, and makes more consistent ammo. If someone comes up with a way to make the ABLP seat more consistently I'd like it a lot more. As is, it pushes my OCD button. It's annoying.

 

[labnoti]

I had both the LCT and the ABLP for a short time but decided to let the LCT go and keep the ABLP, but my decision was based on only the short time I had with both. After keeping the ABLP for a while and learning its advantages and shortcomings in greater depth, I don't see a great advantage to it on the whole. The only place where the ABLP does very well is large production runs. I agree with Bolson that it has trouble with consistency in seat depth, but this is especially true where there is inconsistency with the shell plate loading. If you've got 1 or 2 shells on the plate, you'll get different depth than if the plate is loaded with 4. If I'm loading small batches for 5 shot groups during load development, it's frustrating. If I run 100 cases through it, the consistency of a batch isn't bad in OAL, and ES and SD are tight if the load is a good one.

I like the case feeder. I don't use the on-press primer (there are threads to read if you want to). I don't care for the bullet feeder. I set it aside after a mix of success and failure.

If you leave it set up for .45, don't change anything, and run batches of several hundred cartridges at a time, the ABLP is a very good value that will deliver good ammo and save you time.

If you spend a lot of time in load development, use the press for multiple cartridges, load smaller batches (like 50), and especially if you want precision in small batches, then the ABLP leaves a lot to be desired. Personally, my preference for option B would be a single stage press. Also, going the other direction, if you load well over 1500 cartridges a month of a single cartridge, I'd go to Dillon.

 

[Zendude]

I would go with the ABLP because you can add other accessories like the brass feeder and bullet feeder. You might find other good uses for the 4 hole progressive, such as adding a powder check die when loading long cases like 357.

 

[kmw1954]

The inconsistent seating depth is that because of the breech lock bushing or something else? The biggest advantage I see between the turret press and the Breech Lock progressive is the number of handle pulls involved in making 100 rounds. Much like the difference between the old 3 hole turret press and the Pro 1000

So far I haven't seen an argument to swing this one way or the other.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The new Value 4 Hole Turret Press looks great, I didn't know about it. While reading this thread I was also thinking you could upgrade your turret press with the 4 Hole kit. But.... Looking at the new press you might want to just buy it.

As a side note, I can safely load between 180 and 200 handgun rounds per hour in my Classic Turret press. I see no reason to buy a progressive press if you are not shooting high volumes of ammo in competition or training. (all IMO of course)

 

[labnoti]

The inconsistent seating depth is that because of the breech lock bushing or something else? The biggest advantage I see between the turret press and the Breech Lock progressive is the number of handle pulls involved in making 100 rounds. Much like the difference between the old 3 hole turret press and the Pro 1000

So far I haven't seen an argument to swing this one way or the other.

Not the breech lock bushing. I've used those on a single stage also and they're solid.

I suspect it's flex in the press, particularly the base under the shell plate. The ram only supports the base under the resizing die station #1. The seating station is opposite it and the least supported by the ram. The whole press is thinner and lighter than anything I've seen. But it does work. I load .357 on it, and a 5 shot group will have a standard deviation of 9fps using the Lee Auto-drum. If I start measuring powder charges, I'll see they're off by +/- 0.1 grain. If I start measuring every cartridge's OAL, I'll see it's off by +/- 0.007". But if I've used the right powder and bullet combo, the groups will still be tight. That's why Bolson wrote it "pushes my OCD button." But does it make usable ammo? Absolutely. A lot of reloaders produce cartridges with much greater precision, but especially for handguns, it probably makes no difference at all except in the pride you take in your work. If you take a lot of pride in your reloads, look elsewhere for a tool that will honor your efforts. If you reload so you have more to shoot, the ABLP can deliver a lot of shooting for a very fair price.

 

[kmw1954]

So as I have stated I will most likely be only loading the 45acp on this press because I need the 4th station. Will also most probably only be loading somewhere between 100 to 200 at a time as I do not shoot the 45 as much as I shoot the 9mm or 380. And when there are 2 of us shooting 45acp at the same time we can burn up a few dollars in a hurry. I know, but it sure is fun!
Labnoti the next question I have to ask then is what bullets are you loading when you experience this? I ask because I primarily load on a Lee Pro1000 which is pretty much the same setup/design as far as the carrier and shellplate as the Breech Lock.. I also load primarily plated bullets and for the most part they are consistent. Where I may get a deviation of .002" - .003", which is more than acceptable as I see greater deviation than that with factory loads. Though right now I have a box of 115gr RN plated bullets that will not hold better than .010" because of the way they are struck.

 

[kmw1954]

Here are a couple of youtube videos on the new Value Turret and the Breech Lock Pro. These are pretty well done I think.

 

[Hondo 60]

I can highly recommend some of Lee's single stage presses.
Maybe even the Classic turret press.

I've had the value turret & Pro1000 presses.
I ended up boxing both of them up & went back to my SS press.

The constant tinkering slowed me down so much that the SS was faster.

I eventually bought another brand's progressive & can pound out hundreds of rounds per hr.

I'm not a machinist & dont play one on TV. Some people are just really handy & actually like the Pro1000. Not me.

Just my 2c worth. YMMV

 

[kmw1954]

Hondo sorry to hear the Lee presses weren't for you but thankfully you found something that does work for you.
I'm perfectly happy with both of mine and plan on keeping them till I'm done for good.