A Paramedic student trying to Arm himself

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Armed Med Student

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Dec 3, 2011
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Location
Idaho, the rural part
Hello all, I've been checking out the forums here for around half a year now and finally decided to post my own questions here as well. I am a young shooter, bought my first rifle as soon as i turned 18, a couple months ago ( a Yugo sks, i researched it for months and compared it to the Wasr 10 family of AK's and decided that an SKS suited me better). I have become very concerned with the way our country has been progressing (if you can call it that ). I have decided to start prepping fire arms for SHTF scenarios. I am engaged a beautiful woman whom has driven me even deeper into the prepping mindset because of how much i want to protect her. I am also at the Emergency Medical Technician Basic level of my Paramedic course. I plan to make trauma surgeon at some point.

My main concern now is where to go to in my fire arms purchasing next. I have my Yugo sks ( Which is my baby after putting in some considerable cash not just for the rifle but for upgrading some internal parts, a tapco stock because as much as i love my rifle that damned wood stock is not built for a 6'1' 200lb American, and painstakingly removing alll that darn cosmoline. THANK GOD FOR BRAKE CLEANER AND MINERAL SPIRITS!), an old Chinese chest rig with about 200 of those beautiful Tula 7.62x39's in it I donot feel very comfortable with just one rifle. I am considering where to go to next. I will still be stocking up on 7.62's for the sks while considering where to go next of course. the reason i am not comfortable with just one rifle is that at some point i want to be able to get a good defensive militia group going with some of my closefriends who are also my co-workers. i also don't want to be left helpless if for some freak of nature my sks can't go bang anymore (Murphy's law right?)

I understand I am very young in comparison to some people on these boards, i came from a family that respects elders and I am fully aware that I have much to learn.

I donot play Call of Duty, I am not a Mall ninja who wants tacticool crap on my weapons I am not looking to wage a war in a SHTF, just protect my Fiance, Mother, and brothers.

My criteria is fairly simple:
1. Reliable, this is why i went to the SKS and AK and not the AR 15. Yes the AR-15 is a beautiful weapon, but it is not for me. i like my guns simple and low maintenance. Just in case i can't afford to lay down a tarp and dissasemble all those tiny, amazingly machined AR parts.

2. Cheap to shoot!, Also why i went the Ak/SKS route! Sure that special near custom caliber that your awesome rifle chambers is super accurate, can go through anything, and will make you coffee in the morning if you ask it to. BUT if i can't afford to stock and shoot it regularly for training than i don't want that as my SHTF gun. (Oh but if i could have a wonder rifle and all the ammmo in the world for it)

3. Please no Hand gun suggestions. I'd love to have a Glock 17, .357 wheel gun, or that super great handling German pistol you have. But i'm under 21 and can't buy it or its ammo.

4. Practical: i'm not an M.D. yet! i promise once i am i'll have enough weapons to arm a whole neighborhood! but right now my gun fund is limited.

5. some how combat eligible: I really don't want to be out gunned in a SHTF. if my opponent(s) outnumber and somehow happen to all be Class 3 owners with special forces level training then yes i'm very very dead. but in regular scenarios being able to put a good fight would be nice

6. If it helps I live in Southern Idaho! (For now anyway) I am in a semi rural area with a few low population towns within 5-10 miles of my home and one large metro center around 20 miles away. Closer than i'd like but still better than living inside the city. I have very good sight lines from my house. i have 2 acres to myself and company. there is atleast 75 yards of open terrain in all directions.



Any good suggestion is appreciated guys. i have alot of faith in Our gun owners and i'm very proud to be part of this society.
 
Welcome to THR. Couple of things though. First we do not do SHTF, EOTWAWKI, Zombie or Blue Helmets are coming threads. If you want to talk personal preperation that is fine but SHTF sanerios will all end the same way, thread lock. Now with that in mind there is nothing wrong with being ready for what life throws at you.

Now, why do you think you need another rifle? You can only shoot one at a time. I understand wanting to help out some friends and family but at this point I think you'd be best served by buying ammo and taking a carbine or rifle course and really getting to know the limitations of the rifle and yourself. I promise I am the weakest link in chain when it comes to my AR.

The chances of the average American seeing combat are so near 0 that you'd have to have NASA do the math on that one so I'd focus on training, training, training. You seem to like the Soviet block weapons. Nothing wrong with that. Not my thing but to each his own. If you really feel the need for another rifle I'd go with another SKS or an AK. Same caliber and similar controls and features keeps things simple.

So if I were you I'd buy ammo, take a good rifle or carbine class from a known instructor and train, train, train. One of our Mods has a sig line that goes something like, "Mindset, Skillset, toolset. In that order." Meaning that the rifle is the last and least important part of the set. You need to have the right mindset and then the skillset. Both of those are obtained through, you guessed it, training.
 
Sorry for posting a shtf thread. thanks for the heads up. I do love the soviet era weaponry. (Possibly some trait i inherited from my Cuban and Vietnamese ancestry). A rifle course would be amazing. maybe in the summer.

However i am a little iffy about AK variants that are available to me. WASR AKs have me kinda iffy, too many mixed reviews. i would buy one if i could inspect it first but no gun shops sell them in my area. would you have any experience with WASRs?
 
Nope I am an AR shooter through and through. Not that I do not understand the appeal of AK style weapons, they just don't appeal to me. Now there are plenty of decent AKs out there. I hear Arsenal makes a good AK and that the Yugo AKs are good as well. But that is only based on what I read here. No need to be sorry, we all started somewhere.
 
I just love the "It shoots better with mud in it" quality of most com bloc weapons.
I was looking at the arsenals a while back.. that price tag hurt my eyes!, but quality is pricey i suppose.
also, love the nail driver qaulity of the AR. The light weight, fairly compact design,and little recoil are also very apealing!
Any entry level AR suggestions? gotta keep an open mind!
 
Yeah, skip the 'buying gun'
part and go rent them,
find out what
YOU like in a weapon
and buy that...

In the mean time, a 10/22 is a VERY upgradable semi .22
or any decently accurate .22 will do tons to teach you the basics

Sign up for an http://appleseedinfo.org/
get the gun you want
don't expect to do everything cause it won't and you will be very disappointed
and have fun
 
It really depends on your budget. You can get a Colt 6920, what many consider as the best rifle for the money right now, for under $1000. S&W sells their M&P 15 starting around $800, maybe less. You really can not go wrong if you stick with a known name. BCM, PSA, Colt, Rock River, Spikes, S&W just to name a few. With everyone and their brother makeing ARs these days the prices are really coming down. Unless you want a top shelf/ boutique rifle like a JP, LaRue or Noveske.

Some will say that building your own is cheaper than buying one. I am not sure I buy that. But what it will do is allow you to buy parts as the budget allows. A few special tools and a bench vice and you are in business. My AR is a mix and match parts gun but anything 600y and in is mine.

In my experience the fragility of the AR is vastly over stated. They do not need constant cleaning to run, nor are they prone to failure. I put near 1000 rounds through mine this summer in competition and range time with out a cleaning and only one total shut down. Got a primer down in the trigger group. 1 in 1000 is not bad in my book.
 
That really depends on the rifle. Some do, some don't. I have yet to try it in mine as I reload so inexpensive ammo is only a reloading press away. This I do know, mine likes to run wet. I need to pick up some steel case and see how it works one of these days.

The AR is kind of like Legos for grown ups. You can configure the thing 6 ways to Sunday in just about an manner you can think of. Some guys keep it simple, some guys go full on "operator" style. Mine is set up for the competition I shoot, Tactical Rifle. Pretty basic. 1-4x scope on a flat top upper and a float tube are as fancy as I get.
 
Steel doesn't have the spring of brass
the issue with tight chambers and steel is that the round remains a bit stretched out
and this causes problems when the chamber is cut to the minimum dimensions to get the most accuracy out the rifle.

Like I said a .22 is a great place to start, and one of the few guns you can afford to shoot hundreds of rounds without breaking the piggy bank

Consider $1000 dollars buys you AR or 1911
$1000 buys about 2500 rounds of .45 or .223 (and this is cheap range ammo)

the gun is the CHEAPEST investment in your shooting hobby, so it's worth it in the long run to pay the bit more to buy the guy you want, the one you enjoy, than be frustrated with a POS

I have some POS's
actually they are great guns, that have some quirks, and NO parts, cause they are 100ish years old. I expect it, and getting them to work without destroying their value is part of the fun so what if I have to cycle the slide by hand since APC (the closest round to 7.65 frommer) won't cycle the action, and I have pull the trigger twice to fire it, I'm shooting a piece of history.

Somebody else would think I"m insane, either for taking a museum piece shooting or for taking such a piece of crap to the range.

In the end it's about what tickles your fancy
and that is YOURS, not mine, not anybody else in this thread, not in this forum.

But, there are guns that really do suck, bad engineering, bad materials etc.
toss a model out and you get opinions about it
So do your due diligence (research, renting the same model, asking online etc.)

but most importantly
have fun.
 
The 10/22 suggestion was really a good one. I own several... they are pretty cheap to work on and modify as well as shoot. And shooting a lot and improving that skill is what I think you are really after...
 
Since you have an sks why not look into an ak? Same ammo right? It's nice to have many differant guns but you have to keep in mind that you need ammo for them too. So it would be simpler to keep your caliber size the same. If you arn't sure what you want to buy next try to rent first. It will save you alot of hassel. Good luck.
 
Preparedness cycles

AMS,
Welcome to THR.

We have cycles here at THR, as do other forums. We have cycles of new members coming in, asking the same questions, regarding the same topics.

There is a lot to be gleaned from doing a search here. I would suggest doing some searches in regard to actual serious serious situations, such as Katrina. While the concern of politics and freedoms is a good one, the reality is, being in a rural setting as you shared, does have some advantages for you.

.22 rifle.

Some things just "are" and having a Marlin 60, Ruger 10/22, Marlin 39, or whatever flavor of .22 is highly suggested. These are proven for folks living in the country, as is having a shotgun, and handgun.
Marlin Papoose, since it breaks down to a very compact size in its case, is another "staple" for many folks as well.

Just how raised, what you do. These tools take care of varmints, pests, predators, and put food on the table. Food, may be the most concern in a serious situation and supplement the canned goods and other food stuff put back.

Fun.
.22's are just Fun! In a world going kaput, sometimes one just needs to break away from it all, and have some Fun!
 
You've fallen prey to a number of myths.

ARs are unreliable - No.
I've run ARs in courses that consumed a thousand rounds and the gun never failed to function. You can say the same for AKs, but the idea that an AR is basically unreliable is an outdated hold over from the M16's initial rollout.

AKs will run regardless what you do to them - No
Nothing runs regardless of what you do to it. Nothing "runs better with mud in it". Such hyperbole isn't what you want to bet you life on. Everything requires that it be clean enough for the moving parts to move. An AK's tolerances are loose enough that it just takes a bit more to gunk it up. BTW, an SKS has tighter tolerances than an AK.

Arming strangers is a good idea - No
People that don't know how to use firearms safely are themselves a real threat to everyone around them. The lawyer/baker/candle stick maker down the street that won't keep his finger off the trigger of the shotgun you've handed out to him and doesn't listen to "don't point that at me!" can kill you or your wife as surely as some mythical marauder.

Civilian combat - No
Doesn't happen any more than a paramedic performs pectoral implants or liposuction. Just because you can dream it up doesn't mean that it practically happens.

What we recommend is TRAINING over all else after you've gotten a firearm. Just like your training as an EMT you know that a bunch of tools are less valuable in saving a life than having the knowledge and skill to do so. Same with self/home defense. Skills are far more valuable than a pile of hardware that you don't know how to use in an emergency.
 
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OP:

I strongly agree with the idea that not all firearms platforms fit height and weight. To add to my complication is a fused neck.

Others have suggested to find a weapon platform that you like, and that fits. I'll stray from the pack and say that for me, it's a good bolt-action rifle with high-quality glass. I'm not bragging when I say that I know how to run a bolt-rifle. They are effective and efficient. Regarding a SHTF scenario...I don't see it. For those who dispute zombies, you haven't seen me in the morning before a pot of coffee.

The best advice I have read here is to get yourself some good training. The price will amaze you. In my area, there are so many local LEOs who are happy to train others, and for a very small price. My Tactical and Advanced Tactical Handgun courses were by-invite-only. They were instructed by some very highly trained LEOs, as in SWAT Directors, local LEO Sergeants, and a Detroit Police Department Tactical Instructors. Each course cost me about $150.00.

Skip the myth and hype. Buy what fits you physically, and your location needs. Then, get some training. Get some bulk ammo, and keep practicing. Welcome to THR.

Geno
 
HSO hits the nail.

To the OP: you already have 3 weapons: your mind, body, and an SKS.

You have the hardware. You have to tune the mindset & skill-set.

As your skills grow, your hardware will expand.

All the fancy gear is worthless if you don't know how to use it: properly and safely.

And no, going to the range to send rounds down-range is not sufficient, if you are considering security and protection. That's a whole new ball game.
 
A well-rounded gun cabinet should include at least one center-fire rifle, a .22, and a shotgun. I realize that this is the rifle forum, but I see a 12 gauge pump with 18-20" barrel in your future
 
The SKS you already have is more than adequate for any type of societal breakdown. Face it, the real reason you are interested in different firearms is that you have discovered that you like them and want more. :)

There are two ways of looking at the (what gun do I buy next) question. Ammo compatibility with what you already have (AK platform) or something that would fill a different niche. Either would be a viable choice, with ammo compatibility being the most logical. I would say that given the critera that you presented an AK type rifle is what you really want. Purchase the gun and spend 3X what you pay for it to buy ammo and practice, practice, practice.

BTW, I have both AK's and AR's and for all practical purposes, the reliability is the same. True, AR's don't like dirt all that much, but you would be amazed at how dirty they can get and still function just fine.

One more thought, in a real SHTF scenario the two most important things to have are potable water and food. All the firearms and ammo in the world aren't going to to keep you alive if you are dehydrating and weak from starvation.
 
Based on what I read here so far (and I didn't read every post), I don't think you need to buy another rifle. Considering you can't buy a handgun yet (which would be my suggestion), I will say you'd do well to buy a shotgun, particularly for use in the HD role. An SKS will suffice, I just think a shotgun with an 18.5" or 20" barrel would be better. That's just my opinion, of course.
 
From the standpoint of defense, the SKS is about as good as any other. "Defense", not "assault" or "combat". Skill is the main thing.

If anything, your lady should also be skilled, and practicality says that she should also be competent with her own SKS.

Long term future? Multitudes of websites with beaucoup information on how to deal with undertain times. One of many is http://www.backwoodshome.com/ Those folks have been around for a good many years.
 
Being an EMT-B you will need to carry items worlds more important than a heavy SKS & tons of ammo. Keep your feet on the ground, and your head out of the clouds. I talk with med students from norway who served as medics in the military, and they were issued service pistols, although they are trained with AK variants as well. Pack on all your medical gear onto a MOLLE vest, sling your rifle around your back and see how well that works out when you have to access packing gauze, bandages, surgical scissors, and whatever else you might need.
If you want an efficient model of your idea to arm yourself alongside your lifesaving skills take a very long hard look at how the military medics accomplish this.
What everyone here says is very very true, training is EVERYTHING. But you have an ultra-special responsibility to train what you do as an EMT-B 10 times as hard as anyone else if you want to save lives.

This is coming from someone studying in the medical field as well, and I'm also interested in EM/Trauma Surgery/General Surgery. Good luck with your training and marksmanship skills, practice makes (damn near) perfect.
 
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