A Question about Vacuum Sealing Ammunition

[P.O.2010]

I have been considering recently how best to water proof and store ammunition to protect it, both against high humidity as well as water damage (i.e. flooding). I've seen a great many people suggest purchasing GI surplus ammo cans and packing them with dessicant or simply buying military surplus from the Eastern Block which is already sealed.

My question is this: I've seen products like the Foodsaver where you can place food, clothing, practically anything at all, inside and seal it in special bags. The machine then removes all the air and seals off the bag. Would this work for ammunition or would taking all the air out in this fashion somehow harm my ammunition?

 

[oneounceload]

Harm? No......will you get ALL of the air out? Doubtful. For flood protection, some PVC pipe with threaded ends sealed and vapor material inside will work well

 

[NOLAEMT]

Use military ammo cans, just make sure the rubber seal is still good. if you want put in some desiccant packs, but its not required.

look at what the military does. they use ammo cans with no desiccant, and i guess it works for them.

I'm sure that if vacuum sealing was necessary, the government would do it. I think they can probably afford a food saver machine or two...

 

[Onward Allusion]

Probably would work pretty well. I've thought about doing the same with ammo and the pistols.

P.O.2010
A Question about Vacuum Sealing Ammunition

 

[bannockburn]

P.O.2010

A couple of years ago I placed new ammo (still in the cardboard packaging), inside some heavy duty plastic ziplock bags. I then sealed them up with duct tape, placed them inside some plastic containers (like the ones disinfecting wipes come in), sealed those up, and placed the containers inside of some even larger plastic bags. Then I buried them about three feet down and left them there for a year. When I dug them up, the outer plastic bags were torn in places, but the containers were completely intact and the ammo was totally dry; as fine as the day I bought it.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

You mean like this?

Yeah, I did it once. It works, but it crushes the boxes against the ammo.

 

[Hatterasguy]

But it in spam cans, or in those rubber battle packs.

 

[teddy52food]

I wonder if the cartridge isn't perfectly sealed it will over time let the air into the bag??

 

[Rembrandt]

Military ammo cans do just fine. I have heat sealed reloads with a Foodsaver....but without the vacuum on, makes packing for hunting & camping trips handy.



Also use it for storing brass....much tougher & heavier bags than zip-locks.

 

[Martyk]

I couldn't imagine that it would hurt anything but I think it may be a little overkill. Like a few others have mentioned, an ammo can that's in reasonable shape will work. Are you expecting to store your ammo in some particularly harsh or swamp like conditions for an extended period of time? Like.. a few hundred years buried in the back yard?

 

[jakeiscrazy]

I think I've seen it sold like that gunshows, but it's harder to stack that way.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

Double bagging isn't a bad idea. I buy bulk .22, divide them up into 100 round lots, and then put each lot into a Ziplock parts bag (Michael's Crafts 3.00 +/- per hundred). I then pull the baggies into 30 cal ammo cans (I load 4000 rounds in one can).

This pretty much leaves my ammo water proof, and lets me get an instant count on how much I have on-hand. It also makes picking up 300 rounds to go shooting or 100 rounds to go hunting a simple matter.

KR

 

[Rokman]

Nice pile of brass Rembrandt. I thought of the vacuum sealing route, but I just use ziplocks or ammo cans.

 

[WardenWolf]

Most good commercial ammo you'll find these days has some sort of sealant to keep moisture out. You could probably leave the cartridge underwater for a week or more and it would still work just fine.

 

[stealth]

Double bagging isn't a bad idea. I buy bulk .22, divide them up into 100 round lots, and then put each lot into a Ziplock parts bag (Michael's Crafts 3.00 +/- per hundred). I then pull the baggies into 30 cal ammo cans (I load 4000 rounds in one can).

This pretty much leaves my ammo water proof, and lets me get an instant count on how much I have on-hand. It also makes picking up 300 rounds to go shooting or 100 rounds to go hunting a simple matter.

KR

The only flaw I could see in this is that you touch most of the ammo with your fingers .. getting oils and such on the brass.

 

[owsi26]

I've had a Foodsaver for years. Mine does a great job of getting the air out and it makes a waterproof seal. I've vacuum packed many non-food items.

When I taught SCUBA diving, I would vacuum pack a number of items and it all stayed dry. I would sometimes seal a paper, with skills for the students to do, and take it with me to the bottom. I've taken items to 100 feet without any leaks.

So, I think it would be ideal for storing ammunition. You will have to put something over the points of rifle ammunition, if you will be bagging them loose. Paper towels, cardboard, foam, etc., will work. Use the thicker bags or roll material.

As an aside, I've got a cooked chicken breast that has been in the freezer for a decade. I doubt I'll try eating it, but it looks perfect. There is no freezer burn and it has saved food that would otherwise have been thrown out or gone bad in the freezer.

Okay, it's time to go back to my shift at Foodsaver!!

 

[owsi26]

I read your post again. What I'm referring to is the Foodsavers, not the bags that you hook a vacuum to or roll up. I guess it depends on how much ammo you have, but I use the bags. Probably not necessary, but it works.

It is very good for sealing items for camping and vacation. Another option is to buy their clear cylinders, fill it with ammo, loose wouldn't be a problem. Then hook the vacuum tube and it will pull a vacuum.

A seeing is believing test is to put marshmellows in the container and pull a vacuum.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Shrink-wrapping your ammo is not going to hurt it. First, not all of the air is removed. Second, the propellant (powder) contains its own oxidizer.

 

[ultradoc]

I vacumed sealed some ammo [.380,.223,7.62x39,9mm] about a year ago. I thinks it's over kill but I haven't had any problems.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I'd have to wonder if the weak nitrogen bonds in the NG and NC of the powder would survive a negative atmosphere environment.

 

[CWL]

Military ammo gets sealed into heavy plastic "battlepacks" and it doesn't seem to do any harm. I've got plenty of decades-old, MilSurp .308 packaged that way, and it isn't vacuum sealed either.

The only negative is that food-sealed plastic may develop slight holes from abrasion over time and let air/moisture in. Prolly not a problem unless you live in a swamp.

 

[Crawford]

I think I would be a bit worried about sealing ammo in any kind of a vacuum. First it will in time withdraw air from within the shell casing, the amount of time required depends on the seal around the primer and the one around the bullet. When you finally open up the package the vacuum within the shell cases with immediately try to suck in outside air and all the humidity it contains. If you are in a fairly wet environment when you open it up (suppose it is raining) this could not be good for the rounds.

Second, none of that Foodsaver type plastic is impervious to the transfer of either air or water, especially under vacuum. Have you ever seen a package of chicken in the supermarket that doesn't leak juices by the time you get it home? I haven't. If anything, you want to package the ammo in a low humidity pressurized environment. The pressure, as long as it holds, will prevent air infiltration and any associated moisture.

Finally, I would be concerned about the effect on the powder and primer of being stored in a vacuum for any length of time. I wouldn't try to guess at the vapor pressure of the primer or the powder. Officers'wife pointed to another possible problem above. I am not a chemist, but without a bit of research I would not automatically assume that the rounds will survive long time storage in a partial vacuum.

There is a reason the military uses sealed ammo cans. Adding a small desiccant package in the can just removes any high humidity that might have been in the air when the can is sealed.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Well, i am no chemist, but ...

I'd have to wonder if the weak nitrogen bonds in the NG and NC of the powder would survive a negative atmosphere environment.

I don't think this would matter, since nitrogen is an inert gas anyway.

 

[Crawford]

I don't think this would matter, since nitrogen is an inert gas anyway.

I think what she meant was that the powder, under vacuum, might possibly degrade chemically and become inert (i.e., it will no longer burn). If you remove the nitrogen from the nitrocellulose / nitroglycerin that makes up the gun powder you no longer have gun powder. You have some other chemical compound.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Hi The Lone Haranguer,

I don't think this would matter, since nitrogen is an inert gas anyway.

Propelant grade explosives such as NC (nitrocellulose) and NG (nitroglyerine) depend on the weak chemical bond of the NOx ion in the molecule. As you noted, nitrogen is not an active element, when it does bond it tends to have a great amount of mole energy. In the case of NOx bonds they are usually somewhat to highly unstable. In the case of most explosives used for firearms propalent the organic moles bond with the nitrogen in the ions. Lose that bond you lose the energy of those bonds.