A quick 1911 question
- Thread starter MrIzhevsk
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berkbw
Member
the safety is not going to go off and the trigger cause it to fire. However the firing pin momentum might be enough to compress the spring quickly enough to dent (fire") the primer. Which is why a lot of folks use light weight firing pins, and Wolf supplies hi-power firing springs with its heavier recoil springs.
b-
b-
1911 guy
Member
Two ways it could discharge if dropped.
There are two ways a 1911 could fire if dropped.
1) Handgun is in a state of disrepair and something goes all wonky when it lands. Due to the design, it would have to be a serious maintenance issue and a hard fall.
2) If it landed directly on the muzzle and the firing pin return spring did not arrest the foreward movement of the firing pin sufficiently to prevent discharge.
Neither case is very likely. I'd consider it on par with getting struck by lightning or eaten by rabid llamas. Hey, it could happen.
There are two ways a 1911 could fire if dropped.
1) Handgun is in a state of disrepair and something goes all wonky when it lands. Due to the design, it would have to be a serious maintenance issue and a hard fall.
2) If it landed directly on the muzzle and the firing pin return spring did not arrest the foreward movement of the firing pin sufficiently to prevent discharge.
Neither case is very likely. I'd consider it on par with getting struck by lightning or eaten by rabid llamas. Hey, it could happen.
HOLY DIVER
Member
i'm with 1911 guy .........space ships prob are not going to land on my house tonight but hey you never know
gunjunky
Member
What 1911 guy said:
But if you have a model with no pin block, and you probably do. Then you can (not that I recomend it) take steps to drop proof the pistol; extra power return spring and Ti firing pin come to mind.
I am not say this is needed as the llama problem already talked about is more likely, than a dropped gun discharge. Unless you live in CA where this is a huge problem, but they have taken steps to protect their comrads.
But if you have a model with no pin block, and you probably do. Then you can (not that I recomend it) take steps to drop proof the pistol; extra power return spring and Ti firing pin come to mind.
I am not say this is needed as the llama problem already talked about is more likely, than a dropped gun discharge. Unless you live in CA where this is a huge problem, but they have taken steps to protect their comrads.
Are you saying I probably have a model that DOES NOT have a pin block or one that has one? Sorry but my knowledge of automatic hand guns is very limited, just trying to learn some things.
Thanks for all the insight
Thanks for all the insight
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berkbw
Member
OK.. just WHAT model DO you have, Sir?
gunjunky
Member
No pin block
The Springfields do not use FP block safeties.
The Springfields do not use FP block safeties.
BlindJustice
Member
FYI for O.P. - S&W 1911 has the firing pin safety based on the Schwartz
system popularly compared to Colt 80 Series.
Hey, 1911 Guy - the Grip Safety allows the trigger to
connect with the Hammer, right?
system popularly compared to Colt 80 Series.
Hey, 1911 Guy - the Grip Safety allows the trigger to
connect with the Hammer, right?
Johnny Guest
Moderator In Memoriam
Asked and answered.
At least 20 years ago, someone (Dean Grennell?) did an article for the Gun Digest Annual about making a 1911-type fire accidentally. He and his pals conducted some tests and decided that a GI .45 with noticible wear and tear WOULD fire if dropped from some great height, landing on a concrete floor, directly onto the muzzle. This would overcome the inertial of the standard firing pin and the resistance of an older spring, and impact the primer with sufficient force to fire the cartridge.
I wish I had a copy of that article at hand. I BELIEVE the required drop distance was 17 feet, but it MAY have been 27.
It is noted that the chance of such a discharge seriously hurting anyone is small, as the bullet would exit the muzzle pointed straight down, with little ricochet potential.
Colt's installed the Schwartz firing pin safety on a relatively few pistols during a time when many users still carried them with the hammer down. This was an attempt to keep them from firing IF the hammer slipped from under the thumb, after the sear was disengaged from the hammer notches, and also after the trigger had been released. Colt's soon decided that this feature was really not needed, and it increased both complexity AND the cost of production. (Exactly as the similar features do today, but there are more litigators involved in firearms design and production now than a few generatons ago.
)
Best,
Johnny
At least 20 years ago, someone (Dean Grennell?) did an article for the Gun Digest Annual about making a 1911-type fire accidentally. He and his pals conducted some tests and decided that a GI .45 with noticible wear and tear WOULD fire if dropped from some great height, landing on a concrete floor, directly onto the muzzle. This would overcome the inertial of the standard firing pin and the resistance of an older spring, and impact the primer with sufficient force to fire the cartridge.
I wish I had a copy of that article at hand. I BELIEVE the required drop distance was 17 feet, but it MAY have been 27.
It is noted that the chance of such a discharge seriously hurting anyone is small, as the bullet would exit the muzzle pointed straight down, with little ricochet potential.
Colt's installed the Schwartz firing pin safety on a relatively few pistols during a time when many users still carried them with the hammer down. This was an attempt to keep them from firing IF the hammer slipped from under the thumb, after the sear was disengaged from the hammer notches, and also after the trigger had been released. Colt's soon decided that this feature was really not needed, and it increased both complexity AND the cost of production. (Exactly as the similar features do today, but there are more litigators involved in firearms design and production now than a few generatons ago.
) Best,
Johnny
Big Gay Al
Member
I forget who, exactly, but the guys who publish the yearly magazine on the 1911, did a section on 1911 myths. One of these dealt with ND's related to dropping the pistol. They took an old, battered, but still fully functional 1911 (that did not have a firing pin safety) and put it through the drop test wringer. Not one time did it go off from being dropped.
Myth busted.
Myth busted.
Primersinmyshoe
Member
I'd like to see the Mythbusters do a segment on that subject!
Big Gay Al
Member
I'd love to see that too. Maybe we could start a write in campaign and ask them to work on 1911 myths.
yhtomit
Member
Of course, the problem is that thousands of careful drop tests with no discharge don't DISPROVE that one could happen, under some unlikely set of circumstances. And if one person is certain that he has witnessed (or his friend heard from someone else) that such a discharge is possible, it doesn't matter if there are many other circumstances in which one does not happen.
timothy
timothy
10X
Member
As stated above a 1911 in good repair could only have this happen if dropped muzzle first on a very hard surface from a height over 15 feet.
It is so remote and unlikely to happen, it is not worth worrying about.
It is so remote and unlikely to happen, it is not worth worrying about.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It might be worth noting that during WWII, there were accidents on board ships involving S&W revolvers dropped on steel decks.
Shortly thereafter, at military instance, the hammer block safety was added to the S&W line of revolvers.
At no time, between 1911 and 1985, when it was replaced by the Beretta M-9, was there any demand for a drop-safe modified 1911 by the U.S. military.
That would lead me to believe it just wasn't a real problem in real life.
rcmodel
Shortly thereafter, at military instance, the hammer block safety was added to the S&W line of revolvers.
At no time, between 1911 and 1985, when it was replaced by the Beretta M-9, was there any demand for a drop-safe modified 1911 by the U.S. military.
That would lead me to believe it just wasn't a real problem in real life.
rcmodel
Big Gay Al
Member
I have to find the magazine so I can quote the article accurately, but as I recall, they weighted the barrel so it would strike muzzle down.
Big Gay Al
Member
Who knows. I have to search the place. Knowing my sons, I'll probably find it in their room.
Big Gay Al
Member
Finally found it. Patrick Sweeney, with Guns&Ammo did. Took an old 1911 that had been "hacked on, experimented on and was pretty much one step from the smelter."
They weighted down the barrel, so it would land muzzle first, and put a primed casing in the chamber. They started dropping it from various heights, up to 9 feet. The results, not a single mark on the primer.
This is from "The Complete Book of the Model 1911" Winter 2006/2007 edition.
They weighted down the barrel, so it would land muzzle first, and put a primed casing in the chamber. They started dropping it from various heights, up to 9 feet. The results, not a single mark on the primer.
This is from "The Complete Book of the Model 1911" Winter 2006/2007 edition.
Cloudpeak
Member
I just read about a fellow who dropped his 1911 off the bathroom sink, IIRC.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/concealed-carry-guns/51056-i-dropped-my-ria-45-a.html
Cloudpeak
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin/concealed-carry-guns/51056-i-dropped-my-ria-45-a.html
Cloudpeak
Big Gay Al
Member
I wasn't there, can't say, but from last paragraph on that myth....
"...I don't know what would cause a dropped 1911 to discharge. Unless it was someone trying to avoid punishment from their own AD or ND by blaming the 1911 instead. Nah, that'd never happen."
I'm not saying that's the case, I don't know. I'm just presenting what I found.
"...I don't know what would cause a dropped 1911 to discharge. Unless it was someone trying to avoid punishment from their own AD or ND by blaming the 1911 instead. Nah, that'd never happen."
I'm not saying that's the case, I don't know. I'm just presenting what I found.
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