A really ridiculous idea from my otherwise 2nd amendment friendly state

[Schwing]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28550883&nid=968&fm=home_page&s_cid=featured-3

It is my belief that we are all in the struggle to preserve our rights together. This move by my home state would be a horrible decision. The idea that we are somehow "Subsidizing" non residents is a slap in the face to anyone who supports the right to bear arms.

I predict and am actively going to be a part of the enormous backlash from this idea.

 

[hartcreek]

What a moron does he not realize how much money legally gun toting tourists bring to his state.

 

[PabloJ]

Sounds like perfectly good idea. When one enters one little country from another things like: hunting licenses, fishing licenses, tuition for higher education are all higher. In USA each state is a country unto itself.

 

[Torian]

Sounds like perfectly good idea. When one enters one little country from another things like: hunting licenses, fishing licenses, tuition for higher education are all higher. In USA each state is a country unto itself.

Except that none of those "things" have anything to do with preserving 2nd amendment rights, and keeping them free from politicians imposing bureaucratic barriers and costs, designed to target / discriminate against lawful gun owners.

This bill has nothing to do with raising money, and EVERYTHING to do with gun-grabbing politicians attempting to influence behaviors through precision taxation.

 

[gc70]

The anti-gun politician who proposed the idea showed his true intentions when he said “What about an extra $50, or an extra $500?”

Nevertheless, there is merit to the concept that a state's taxpayers should not subsidize benefits for non-residents.

How much do CCW permits cost to process? Fees for non-residents should probably at least cover processing costs (unless Utah's taxpayers are really generous folks). With 75% of Utah's permits going to non-residents, a small premium (i.e. $10) for providing the very desirable service of issuing non-resident permits could be used for a threefold ($30) price reduction for state residents.

 

[SleazyRider]

Uh-oh. I see he mentioned New Jersey. Maybe Christie will raise the toll on the George Washington Bridge for Utah license plates just to get even.

 

[SFreed]

How much do CCW permits cost to process?

$46.00 for a resident, $51.00 for a non-resident. I might be wrong, but I don't see a problem with them charging more for Non-Resident. JMHO, YMMV

EDIT----Price I noted is to obtain the permit, not the processing costs. Only halfway thru my first cup of coffee, still a little foggy.

 

[SC Shooter]

Sadly, many of our politicans everywhere have only one thought. Where can I get more of other people's money to spend. As i was told in the Army. "For every action, there are two reasons. The stated reason and the real reason". The stated reason here is not subsidizing out of state citizens. The real reason is probably more tax revenue. they never look at the unintended consequences.

 

[BSA1]

I have mixed feeling about issuing concealed carry permits to people that don't have any ties to the state such as being a former resident, owning property, having family living there, business interests or even ever visited the state.

State gun owners spent their time and money to elect pro-gun candidates and getting pro-gun laws passed. Now folks that did not contribute to the fight want to take advantage of the laws we worked so hard to get enacted.

States charge higher fees for fishing and hunting licenses and those folks are spending more money in the State while they are there. Yet out-of-states conceal carry applicants only pay the fee and for a stamp.

I guess this puts me firmly in the charge them more money camp.

PabloJ I've got your back.

 

[vamo]

$500 extra is pretty excessive, but most states charge non residents more than residents so as long as its not way higher (like say the $50 mentioned) I wouldn't have a problem with this. Though that law maker might want to consider that the low cost of the permit may be the reason so many out of staters are getting it.

Is there any reason to get a Utah non-resident permit if you live in a state with reciprocity with Utah?

Edit: Also if you read the article he states that it cost more than the current five dollar difference to process an out of state permit.

 

[Mike1234567]

Sadly, many of our politicans everywhere have only one thought. Where can I get more of other people's money to spend. As i was told in the Army. "For every action, there are two reasons. The stated reason and the real reason". The stated reason here is not subsidizing out of state citizens. The real reason is probably more tax revenue. they never look at the unintended consequences.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Speedo66]

I wouldn't have a problem with them charging the actual cost to process, as long as all permit prices, not just firearms, are raised to reflect the actual processing cost.

Otherwise, it's a directed tax.

 

[deadin]

What a moron does he not realize how much money legally gun toting tourists bring to his state.

I wonder just how many of the aforementioned 75% of non-resident permit holders have ever even set foot in Utah???

 

[Sam1911]

Is there any reason to get a Utah non-resident permit if you live in a state with reciprocity with Utah?

OH YES. No question. Utah's permit is recognized by more states than any other. (Tied with FL, I think.) With your state's permit and a UT nonresident permit you can often then carry lawfully in ~35 other states. For example, I hold a PA LCTF, but I hold the UT license as well because PA's isn't recognized by DE or OH, and Utah's is. I'd love to go to UT someday, but carrying in Utah isn't even remotely why I got their license.

If there are costs that need to be covered, I have no problem paying to cover those costs. A fee simply to raise lots of extra revenue? Not cool.

 

[morcey2]

One thing to note is that the way the existing Utah law is written, the Concealled Firearm Permit program is entirely self-funding via application fees and they aren't supposed to run a surplus. As of April of last year, the application fee was actually reduced for both resident and non-resident permits to keep things in proper order. It's an entirely separate budget and isn't allowed to be raided for usage in the general fund.

I don't think Mr. Dabakis is being entirely honest as to the purpose of the suggested fee increase. The Utah non-resident permit is the most popular permit in the country and he finds that to be an embarrassment. He is the typical gun-grabbing liberal and would be more than happy to turn Utah in to California or New Jersey in terms of gun laws. What isn't stated in the article is the fact that Mr. Dabakis is also the Chairweasel of the Utah Democratic Party.

Matt

 

[goon]

A fee simply to raise lots of extra revenue?

On the surface of it, as long as it's not intended to discourage out of staters from obtaining a Utah CCW permit, I don't have a problem with it.
Utah is offering a service to the RKBA community that no one else is. I'd gladly give them an extra $20 per permit to show my appreciation.

 

[deadin]

I've heard that some states are moving toward that they will recognize out of state permits only if the holder is a resident of the state issuing the permit. Any truth in this???

 

[Sam1911]

Yes, a few states do that, or do it in some cases. Check Gary's site (www.handgunlaw.us) to find examples.

 

[Schwing]

I have a BIG problem with using CC permits as a source of revenue. Even though we are a republic made up of individual states, we are still one nation. It seems to me that about the only thing small states like Utah can do to nationally support the 2nd amendment beyond our own borders is to continue doing what we have been doing with our permit system. They already charge out of state folks $5 more. I am confident that it doesn't cost $50 more to process out of state people.

I have major issues with Dabakis anyway. So many in fact that I would not be able to go into detail and stay composed enough to keep THR standards. What I will say is that he is the lowest of the low as far as politicians are concerned. He has purposefully practiced his political career in a part of our state that, unfortunately is diametrically opposed to the values of our state. The residents there elected him based on the fact that he would be horribly offensive to the rest of the state (This has NOTHING to do with his sexual orientation). Not so much unlike NY, we have a big city to our south that wields huge political power and does not represent the beliefs of the majority of the state.

 

[larry_minn]

I don't mind a reasonable cost.... I forget what time a Utah permit is good for? Having it $10 or $20 more (if its 4+ yr permit) as there should be limited work needed.
I would assume (from what I recall when I had Utah permit) that the out of state instructor had to have Utah credentials. Fingerprints had to be submitted, and copy of your state permit.`
So it should be paperwork of minutes to send out permits.

 

[JTHunter]

An analogy:
For years, states have charged higher fees for out-of-state hunters. This controls the number of people able to hunt the limited acreage and numbers of animals. It gives state residents, whose taxes pay for the Dept. of Nat. Resources/Dept. of Fish & Game (whatever they call it) preferential access to those resources.

On the flip side, every state in this country honors - AT NO COST - the drivers license from every other state! There is no "matching requirements" for out-of-state drivers to meet the driver's test of that state.

Hhmm - cars can be "misused" and be "lethal weapons" and they don't charge extra for drivers licenses issued by other states. Yet they accept them at "face value".

Hhmmm??

 

[Sam1911]

For years, states have charged higher fees for out-of-state hunters. This controls the number of people able to hunt the limited acreage and numbers of animals. It gives state residents, whose taxes pay for the Dept. of Nat. Resources/Dept. of Fish & Game (whatever they call it) preferential access to those resources.

Maybe UT wants its citizens to have preferential access to the free-range muggers and rapists there?

 

[Edster12]

Well maybe Utah wants to become the Massachusetts of the west---
Resident permit ---$100.00 for a 6 year permit
Non Resident permit --- $100.00 per year !!!!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

This thread is bashing Utah for charging extra for out of state permits yet there is no outrage that many states don't even offer out of state permits AT ALL.
In Arkansas you have to be a resident of the state for 90 days before you're eligible to apply for a CHL. Wouldn't that make Arkansas even worse than Utah, since they don't even offer it?

 

[230RN]

deadin asked,

I've heard that some states are moving toward that they will recognize out of state permits only if the holder is a resident of the state issuing the permit. Any truth in this???

Yes. See below.

Is there any reason to get a Utah non-resident permit if you live in a state with reciprocity with Utah?

Besides the traveling reciprocity issue brought up by Sam1911, I wanted to get a nonresident Utah permit to keep at home in case I lost my wallet or something bizarre happened. I could then carry on my nonres Utah permit here in Colorado while I got my original replaced.

That is, until Colorado decided it wanted to restrict reciprocity to only out of state permits where the holder is a resident of the state issuing the permit... as asked by deadin, above.

The thing that bothered me about it was there was no hue and cry about the proposed legislation, mainly as I perceived it, because of the prevailing attitude of "it don't affect me nohow, so why should I care?"

So the law got through our Legislature and was signed by the Governor, and there went my "insurance" permit.

Folks, you've got to remember that every restrictive law anywhere, whether it affects you personally or not, must be fought tooth and nail.

By you.

Personally.

And that includes laws tending toward restrictive taxation (or fees) as in the current instance.

Terry, 230RN