aaaaagh! 200 swc 45acp ftf

[shu]

My first and only .45, a Springfield 1911-a1 MilSpec.
Feeds PMC 230gr ball no problem.
Did a few hundred Rainier 230gr plated round nose, mostly with AA#5, no problem.

Ordered 1000 West Coast 200gr plated semi wad cutter without anticipating feed problems. Tried some today with 5.0gr Bullseye and 1.250 oal. Two out of thirteen failed to make the turn at the top of the ramp.

This should be a low end load. Someone on this board mentioned 4.5gr Bullseye with 200gr lead swc as a good soft load. Speer #13, for their 200gr TMJ SWC says 5.2 to 5.8 gr Bullseye with 1.275 oal. I had to go with a lower oal to fit the magazine.

What is the recommended solution to cure the failure to feed? Would pushing oal down evan further likely help? (I understand peak pressure increases as oal is shortened). Would a faster load help (snapier slide return)?

 

[Flash Hole]

Try using a Round nose seating plug. This will put a small radius
on the bullet, and may get you over the hump.

JOHN

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I'm not familar with the SWC you mention, but is it like the plated Rainier 200 gr SWC shown in the picture next to the cast SWC? If so, while differences are small, I've always found this design harder than the cast bullet to get to feed reliably. The lead bullet's based on the old H&G 68 which works fine in many 1911s. The Rainier, Hornady C/T JSWC, and others like them frequently cause feeding problems in my experience. You might try altering the LOA, but that didn't make any difference in my experience.

...the loaded rounds...

Best and good luck.

 

[shu]

Nice pictures. Thanks. Yes, the West Coast is a shorter bullet like the plated one you showed. At 1.250 I had more copper showing above the case than your loaded rounds. I believe I will push the oal down a bit more.

Will try the round nose seating plug also. Can't imagine much change of shape to the bullet with the forces involved, but it may smoothe the finish there at the rim of the bullet.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Well, I had best luck with these at 1.23 to 1.24" depending on the particular pistol. Don't do what I did and buy 5000 of the darned things before trying. Hahahahahhaaha! I've been loading them up along the way every now and again just to use them up. Finally, I'm down to less than 500!

Best.

 

[HSMITH]

I have had better luck with the 200 SWC by stretching the OAL to 1.267-1.27". they fit fine in the mags of my Para and a Kimber with a stock mag and a shooting star mag. Both guns eat them like ball ammo too. 4 grains of clays works well for me with a stock recoil spring, or down to a 14 pound spring I like 3.6 grains.

 

[WESHOOT2]

ONE MORE TIME

"First, your gun must work."

HIGHLY RECOMMEND, if experiencing FTF, using 230g RN bullets.
The reason they still exist is because they are not a fad nor Bullseye bullet, they are reliable-feeding pojectiles.

 

[Quantrill]

Shu,
I notice in the pictures that the bullet has a bit of full dia. bullet showing over the case trim. I have found that seating that type of .45 semi wadcutter (H&G#68 and clones) should be flush with the top of the case trim. Feeds better for me that way. Quantrill

 

[wingman]

Hello. Well, I had best luck with these at 1.23 to 1.24" -------------

Same here, west coast 200swc, oal
of 1.240, feed ok.

 

[BigG]

What Quantrill said or if you want exposed full diameter lead in my experience Mr. Camp's pix show about the outer limits that will work well in my Colts.

 

[shu]

Many thanks.

My (limited) understanding is that increasing oal will reduce the peak pressure without much change in exit velocity. Conversely decreasing oal would increase the peak pressure - a thing to be avoided.

I was concerned because I was already below the oal for Speer's 200gr tmj swc. However that may be the longer snouted H&G 68 form. I will push down more toward the crown of the large diameter flush with top of case, keep the powder weight down, and inspect the fired cases. I'm just looking for the minimum load that meets power factor, is accurate, and feeds reliably.

 

[45Badger]

I use West Coast, 200 gr PSWCs over 5 GR Bullseye or 5.2 Gr Win 231, OAL 1.240-50 feeds in all my 1911s (Milspec included). Make sure you are taper crimping to .469-70.

I did have some feeding problems before I git my crimp dialed in. What recoil spring weight are you using? 18#s sometimes helps the process along.

Good luck.

 

[Johnny Guest]

One suggestion - - -

I loaded nothing but 225 -- 230 RNL bullets for many years. There came a day I needed some practice loads and had no RNL cast, and local dealer was completely out. I bought some ready cast bullets from a guy who used the H&G #68 bullet. I had fooled with these, tinkering with the COL quite a bit in years past and finally gave up.

I had read, though, that the #68 was designed so that the edges of the nose of the bullet and the shoulder would correspond to the same tangential points of the 230 hardball bullet. Since I had long been setting my seating die for RNL with a factory hardball round, and the dies were locked in place, I gave it a try. Worked like a charm! Same seating stem, same setting. Heck, the same powder measure setting, using Unique powder - - -This combo fed just fine! The charge gave me a fairly vigorous velocity with the lighter bullet, and it fed and functioned great.

Give this a try--Most of the guys who used this bullet for IPSC competition loaded 5.0 gr. of Bullseye, and made major with it. Never adopted it myself, but it was a good, accurate load in their pistols.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, Johnny. Kind of a coincidence, but today I tried some Precision CSWCs in 200 grains that are coated with something akin to plastic; it's not moly, I don't think, but it was noticeably more accurate at 50 yards in my STI, a friend's Kimber, and another STI than the Kead 200 gr CSWC I've been using. I also chronographed it. The average velocity is based on 10 shots with the chronograph about 10' from the muzzle.

Average Velocity: 866 ft/sec
Extreme Spread: 41 ft/sec
Standard Deviation: 12 ft/sec

These cost about the same as other cast bullets. I've got a thousand due in within a couple of weeks and will be happy to let you know what more extensive testing yields or give you some to load up. If interested, here's a link to Precision's site.

http://www.precisionbullets.com/

The bullet is based on the #68 and fed flawlessly in my the guns above as well as another fellow's shorter 4" Kimber; I forget what that one's called!

Best.

 

[45Badger]

I've also had very good luck with Precision bullets. Very accurate and reliable. My Kart barrel just likes the West Coast's better.

Anybody who hates their West Coast 200 PSWC's, I'll take em

 

[TEXAS LAWMAN]

Used to shoot homecast Lyman #452460, the classic 200gr SWC, in a Llama and later in several Colts. Always got the best feeding when I left just a bit of the bearing surface showing above the case mouth. Don't remember the exact OAL and can't search my records right now.

Luck!

 

[Johnny Guest]

Hi, Steve - - -

Do you care to share what powder sharege you were using to get that velocity with the Precision CSWC bullets? Or are you sving that for another of your excellent range reports. Looking forward to the next one.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, Johnny. Sure, I'd meant to put it in the post, but, well, you know how it is with each passing years. It very simply is 5.0 gr Bullseye. It's within 3 ft/sec of the average velocity when using Kead's 200 gr CSWC out of my gun, but the ES & SD are smaller. I know that this does not always translate to the most accurate load for some reason, but in this case, it does. A fellow who I do trust enough not to redo his tests said that he also got very fine accuracy at 4.2 gr BE, but everything from 4.4 to about 4.8 didn't group as well and then it "hit" again at 5.0 gr. I miked fired cases today and checked for any possible pressure signs, etc, but knew I wouldn't find anything out of whack and sure did not. Whatever that coating is, it does not rub off like moly and apparently doesn't alter velocities much from the plain hardcast bullets.

We fired this load quite a bit from 3 different pistols and it did group better for us at 50 yards. He shot a bit tighter groups than did I, but this load does seem to shoot and might a good one for folks wanting more than a very light target load for range use in their set-up-for-the-street 1911s. I ran it with factory 16lb in full-size pistols and my usual 18.5lb recoil springs. Worked like a peach in both.

Best.

 

[Kimber Kid]

.

 

[Kimber Kid]

My Kimbers love the 200 grain HCSWC and I like their price. I shoot bullets very similar to what Stephen shows on the right at velocities the same as he states, not super hot but not whimpy either. With the possible exception of straight wad-cutters these bullets are the hardest to feed. If your chamber has been throated, ramp polished and the mag is right you may want to try a "LIGHT" tapered crimp. This just might make a believer out of you. The SDB has a tapered crimp die already, just adjust it down while feeling for the sharp case edge to go away. Less is more, but don't worry about headspace problems. Measuring a box of mixed brass I found .015 difference in case length and have never had a problem with headspace. Good luck.

You may want to turn your load down a bit at first, Bullseye is fast. Don't go over recommened charges.

 

[shu]

Tried 1.240 oal with the West Coast 200gr plated swc and cut the fail to feed rate in half to about 8%. I believe I will push on to 1.230.

This Springfield 1911-A1 MilSpec does seem to have a tight chamber. Was having problems with the Ranier 230gr plated RN failing to make the last 1/8 inch of going into battery - evan after I did a drop-in test on them all. Got a Lee FCD, lightly crimped them; did not help. Sent some through the FCD again with a righteous squeeze! and that seemed to cure that problem.

 

[Steve Smith]

You could have the chamber throated so it will accept those SWCs easier. That shouldn't cost more than $40.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I use D&J 200 gr RNFP hardcast or Mid-Kansas Cast Bullets' 200 gr RN. I bought 500 SWCs, finally got them dialed in at a certain OAL but just don't trust them in Comstock matches. A jam is just too costly - but nothing like what it could cost in a real gunfight.

 

[Matt G]

I know we're drifting off-topic, here, but I gotta ask: did you get any leading from that Precision CSWC coated bullet, Steve? How would you compare its cleanliness to FMJ or TMJ?

-M.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, Matt. No leading; none. The 5.0 BE load with that bullet was not overly dirty.

Best.