Ability to repair and maintain one's rifle long term?

[geojap]

I searched in the Rifle Country forum and didn't find any topic on this. The general question is: If one is going to have a rifle on which they will depend for the long term, what are the things one should know to keep the rifle functioning, including knowing which parts are more prone to failure and how to replace/repair them. The goal would be to keep a rifle functioning under normal use for a very long time, with only the owner's knowledge, skills and tools.

I'm mainly thinking about semi-auto rifles here, as there are more moving parts to wear and possibly break. But bolt action rifles would not and should not necessarily be excluded from consideration. I have completely disassembled bolt action rifles very easily before, so they are not a mystery to me and I could keep one functioning for a very long time.

So what are the parts most likely to break on a semi-auto (which you would then buy spares of)? What are the hardest parts to change? How would one learn to change those parts which are hardest to replace and prone to failure? What is the easiest rifle to keep operable when viewing it from this perspective? What is the worst?

 

[GunTech]

I depends on the rifle.

For semi's, the AR is the easiest rifle to work on. You can maintain and replace any part without a lot of specialized tools. Get the armorers manual and a handful of spare parts - springs, extractor, firing pin, bolt. You can get an insert for the MagPul MIAD grip to hold all the essentials.

A turnbolt rifle is another matter. You won't be changing a barrel. Just to change an extractor requires several specialized tools. Personally, I'd take a Win M70 classic over a Remington 700 if I was worried about long term maintenance. The extractor is much more durable, the ejector is fixed and uses no springs, and bolt disassembly is much, much easier.

Do you have specific weapons you are interested in?

 

[GunTech]

Here are some links:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/AR-15Spares.htm

BTW, replace you recoil spring with a silicon steel one from Superior Shooting Systems.

http://www.chestnutridge.com/images/inv/14PSPK.asp

 

[ZeSpectre]

So what are the parts most likely to break on a semi-auto

As others said, it depends on the semi-auto, but in general...
-Springs
-Firing pins
-Extractors
-Ejectors

Or you could get an SKS which is pretty much repairable by any competent blacksmith

 

[dispatch55126]

It would depend on the recoil mechanism. Gas operated has more parts than a delayed blowback but is capable of handling larger calibers.

Gas operated- I'd take the Mini-14 or 30. The whole thing can be taken down without any tools and has less parts than an AR...(I KNOW ITS LESS ACCURATE BUT THATS NOT THE QUESTION!!!)

Delayed blowback-Something like a CX-4 or a Hi-Point. They have even less parts.

In any case, springs and various small parts (keys and pins) would be best to have as spares. Springs can and do fall out and fly across the room to neverland and keys and pins can disappear as well.

 

[ndh87]

Im suprised no one has said the obvious. Get an AK and you wont have to worry about parts for it

Parts for it are cheap, and most arent too terribly hard to get to.

 

[RockyMtnTactical]

Depends on the particular rifle. The best answer is this, "two is one and one is none."

Have more than one rifle, especially if it is your main self defense rifle.

 

[geojap]

It depends on the rifle.

True. I know it's a tall order, but not so diverse as to be unrealistic to catalog the most common rifles. I was supposing that after the generalities of semi-autos have been identified, folks who know specific rifle types would be able to contribute what one would need to know about keeping those specific types of rifles running. There are many types of semi-auto rifles out there, including FALs, AR family, HKs, AK/Valmet/Galil, Sigs, Rugers, Garand/M1A, and more. But there are not so many as to make it unrealistic to point out their individual differences regarding long-term maintenance.

To differentiate for instance, I have read that AR-15 extractors are prone to break every few thousand rounds. Garand barrels wear out after 6000 rounds and the firing pins are prone to breaking during that time. I have never heard of anything wearing out on an AK before, but that is probably just due to ignorance on my part.

 

[dstorm1911]

Gun tech, the AR 15 isn't the easiest..... Semi only AKM rifle no tools needed to do any repairs other than major rebuild..

For a Semi auto AK you have all the tools you need in one tool that you will find in the buttstock cleaning kit, the cleaning kit housing is the torque multiplier

Parts that could fail, in a quality milspec AK (non-WASR) the only part is the recoil spring, they have a life span of about 20K rounds for a stock spring if it does get weak the rifle will still work it will just start making contact with the rear trunion.... Replace with a Wolf spring and forget about it the rest of your life

The rifle can be completally stripped with no tools if your using a shepards hook as an axis pin retainer, with a G2 or other sleeved type FCG and its a matter of releasing the axis retainer push out the pin lift out FCG to remove hammer push out its pin lift out hammer.

you have a total of 4 springs (not counting mag latch which.... will never fail nor require removal

Hammer spring/trigger spring combination (its double wound and in 23 years of building AKs have yet to see one break or even wear out that could not be retensioned by bending

Disconector spring, this is the only spare ya might want to keep not because it can fail but because you might lose it an ink pen spring can be used as a substitute

Recoil spring see above

extractor spring, again have never seen a single failure

Bolt, unless you blow the gun up.....

Bolt carrier/gas piston combination

Recoil assembly

Gas tube

Dust cover

your AK is now totally field stripped, you pushed one button in the rear of the dustcover and lifted off the dust cover, next you pushed that button (which is actually the rear of the recoil assembly) forward and lifted the recoil assembly then retracted it rearward next you pulled the bolt carrier to the rear and lifted it out, rotate the bolt and remove it from the bolt carrier, lift tail of axis pin retainer shepards hook and push FCG axis pin to the left and remove, lift out FCG push hammer slightly forward to take tension off axis pin and push pin to left and remove twist hammer slightly and lift out, look at right side of rear sight block see the small lever, rotate lever up 90 degrees and lift off gas tube, look at lower handguard retainer see small lever right side front, rotate upward and slide retainer forward pull lower handguard forward and remove....

You now have a stripped AK, reassembly is the reverse now if ya get out your Buttstock cleaning kit and remove the muti tool insert the pronged end (front sight adjuster) into corrosponding slot in cleaning kit body you now have a "T" handle screw driver use it to remove the two wood screws retaining the buttstock and then use the screw driver to lever the buttstock rearward and remove buttstock, use the screw driver to remove the slotted screw retaining pistol grip and remove pistol grip and its nut, take the bolt in your left hand look at muti tool see the small rotating punch rotate it 90 degrees and use it to push out fireing pin retaining pin remove fireing pin, next use it to remove extractor retaining pin while pressing down on extractor to release tension remove extractor..... your bolt is now stripped...... theres really nothing else to take apart unless you want to actually remove your front sight and its drum....... ya can do that with the multi tool as well......

So what ya need to dismantle that AR? (yea I already know the answer..... got a whole tool box full of specialty tools for ARs....)

 

[GunTech]

AKs wear out. You just don't notice it because they are so darn inaccurate from the get go. It's a superior bullet hose. And they do wear out. But they are cheap, so you just get another one.

Re: The Mini-14. I have to take issue with the above poster. Try and do a barrel change on a Mini vs an AR. I can swap out a barrel on an AR in about 15 minutes with a couple of simple tools (barrel wrench and vice block - the latter is not even necessary). Heck, my 14 year old daughter has built a couple of ARs from a pile of parts.

The AR is, as so many have noted, the Lego of guns. Easy to build, easy to fix, easy to customize.

 

[GunTech]

geojap,

Unless you have an extensive shop, you won;t be doing a barrel change except maybe on an AR, Savage or AI turnbolt. Rebarreling and headspacing most other rifles is a PITA without the right tools.

 

[dstorm1911]

Yea gun tech they wear out...... so do ARs however, here is ya a link to a totally wore out AK thats still shooting 4" groups at 100

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=122&t=31796

And heres ya a target from my last commercial build (retireing.... at least for awhile)

This was friday from a mechanical shooting machine

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=45096

Same pics are on THR (preventing me from reposting them) but trying to find threads on here is much more difficult......

Sorry if your not able to shoot an AK accuratly...... I don't have that problem So when ya gonna start marketing them ARs that don't wear out? maybe you and Mister PX can get together cause he has an AR thats gone over 16K rounds with zero cleaning too..... between the two of you ya could teach the Engineers at Colt a thing or two......

BTW, Ya forgot to show us how the AR was easier to work on than the AK per your initial post partner.... oh an Takes me 5 minutes to remove AK barrel, 5 minutes to replace, need a blank fireing adapter, a hammer and a brass drift however ya never have to swap out the barrels.... they just keep going and going and going and going and going got one NFA AK my Dad brought back from Nam, its got well over 100,000 rnds down the tube (mostly in full auto) still will barely pass a bullet test at the muzzle.... the one in the link above..... don't even wanna guess how many full auto rounds been through that one, it was used for training so....... over 40 years old and its still going just great

 

[dispatch55126]

Re: The Mini-14. I have to take issue with the above poster. Try and do a barrel change on a Mini vs an AR. I can swap out a barrel on an AR in about 15 minutes with a couple of simple tools (barrel wrench and vice block - the latter is not even necessary). Heck, my 14 year old daughter has built a couple of ARs from a pile of parts.

Unless you plan on shooting several 100k rounds, don't worry about the barrel. There are reliable and accurate rifles from the turn of the century whose barrels still have plenty of life.

 

[JNewell]

Unless you plan on shooting several 100k rounds, don't worry about the barrel. There are reliable and accurate rifles from the turn of the century whose barrels still have plenty of life.

This is true, but a semiauto is potentially subject to rates of fire that will lead to much more rapid barrel wear.

 

[lee n. field]

Gas operated- I'd take the Mini-14 or 30. The whole thing can be taken down without any tools and has less parts than an AR...(I KNOW ITS LESS ACCURATE BUT THATS NOT THE QUESTION!!!)

Except for the fact that there's a bunch of parts you can't get, because Ruger won't sell them to you.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

I bought a firing pin for my .351 model 07 winchester. When it arrived I took a good look at it and decided the pins do not break as they are massive.

 

[LoadedDrum]

The Robinson XCR is the easiest semi-auto to work on because NO special tools what so ever are needed to detail strip it. Also, the serial number is on the lower, not the upper. Since the upper takes most of the wear when the gun is fired, it is good that this part can be replaced.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

I have considered getting backup parts for my 870, in case they ever failed.

But when I looked over everything I figured I would just be as good getting another 870. I think maintaining a gun is a lot of the picture.

 

[geojap]

he Robinson XCR is the easiest semi-auto to work on because NO special tools what so ever are needed to detail strip it.

If you have an XCR, I would get parts that you think you will need now, rather than later. My VEPR IIk 7.62x39 from RobArms is one of my favorite and nicest rifles, which I am now considering selling. The reason is because I cannot get nary a replacement part from Robinson Armaments. They will not respond to any requests for springs and such, so I have to assume that they have none. I have an incredibly nice but also incredibly high-risk rifle right at the moment.

 

[GunTech]

dstorm1911

Thanks for the sarcasm. I don't sell anything. And I never said that AR's don't wear out. I said it is the easiest rifle to service completely (including barrel swap) without specialist tools. All you have to do is look at the number of function ARs that have been built by first timers with nothing more than some instruction on the net, or an armorers manual.

The AK is a good weapon, but when it comes to building one from parts, or replacing components like a barrel, it is not a beginners operation. If you havge the experience and the right tools, it can be done. I've build a few AKs and Galil's as well. Prior to 86, I built a few select fire versions of both.

My posts were addressed to geojap, who indicated that he is inexperienced.

Barrel replacement on an AR, since you asked.

After insuring the weapon is unloaded, field strip, and then remove handguard and front sight. Using barrel wrench, loosen barrel retaining nut and remove barrel. Insert new barrel, tighten retaining nut. Insert front sight and gas tube - check alignment and adjust. Check headspace. If OK, reassemble.

There are no timed threads to worry about. No issues with barrel coming up TDC depending on receiver and barrel maker.

After you have dealt with a number of FALs, M1A/M14s etc, you start to appreciate the idea of a thrust nut and key holding the barrel in position.

As I am sure you know, AK accuracy has nothing to do with user. I have had AK that would not group 30 rounds into a B21 at 5 yards. My Galil (AK variant) will shoot under 2 MOA.

BTW, both my ARs will shoot under 1/2 MOA with good ammo, and my M1A does right at 1 MOA.

No one is denying the AK is a good weapon. It just takes more skill and experience to do depot style maintenance.

And I do want to see a 100,000 rnd AK that shoots 2 MOA.

 

[Deer Hunter]

A WASR and a Romanian parts kit would be a nice bundle. I doubt the AK would truly fall appart on you, but if it does, you've got spares.

 

[GunTech]

BTW, I didn't include rifles like the Robison, because they are not widely distributed and parts are much harder to obtain. Plus, I don;t think they've been around enough to know what parts are likely to break or fail after extended use.

Re Rifle barrel life, it depends on what you expect in the way of accuracy. We swap out M1A barrels at about 4,000-5,000 rounds. There's frequently a noticeable loss of accuracy at around 2500 rounds, depending on bullets used and load.

I am primarily interested in LR shooting, so anything over 2 MOA is pretty useless, and under 1 MOA is highly desirable. For social work, 2 MOA is plenty accurate, and 4 or 5 will do if you are working at 250 yards or less, IMO.

 

[GunTech]

You can hardy go wrong just buying a couple of AKs for the price of an AR and having a spare, if reliability is your prime consideration.

 

[GunTech]

dstorm1911

BTW, good links on the above post. The conditions of the springs was impressive - in that the old one still worked. I've given up on factory AR and M1A springs and have gone to silicon steel ones from SSS. The springs in my M1As, even military ones, start to have issues after a few thousand rounds. I've been running the same SSS spring on one M1A that is on it's third barrel.

 

[Andrewsky]

I have one M1A and have two stocks, a spare set of roll pins, a spare set of springs, a lot of extra magazines, a spare extractor, and some other cool stuff. I wouldn't worry about having spare barrels or bolts.

"Well I might fire more than 100,000 rounds through it!"

Well then use some moderation if you're truly concerned about making it last.