Ability to repair and maintain one's rifle long term?

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Guntech, sorry bout bein a lil sarcastic, ya cought me right after watchin two idiots beating on an ARs forward assist trying to get Wolf steel case to cycle, bout every third round it would not go into battery and out came the rubber mallet..... they didn't want to listen so.... the hammered while I burned through 500 rnds flawlessly... but they still took an oppertunity to look down their noses at the Yugo M70AB2 I happened to be playin with.... ya know onea them inaccurate junk AKs LOL ya know I just never have had to carry a mallet around to get an AK to cycle flawlessly.... As far as the tear down we (as in myself and the original poster) were reffering to field repair as in what are ya going to need to carry to take care of your rifle in the field....

As far as building AKs, I've tought many people over the years, I was the one at B-west that reverse engineered the first Chicom receiver, the blue prints were drawn out on the table in my Army supplied apt in Sierra vista in 1985 it took me alot of refinment to convince Bud that producing the receivers was doable and then on to cutting the first front trunions as none were available for import until 1989 as the BATF considered the front trunion to be the actual gun and required they be torched.......... so what were ya using for front trunions in 1986? Cause we never sold any of ours and the CNC program wasn't sold until 1988 (punch card days BTW) in 1989 Bud convinced the BATF that the receiver was in fact the gun and the front trunion even though serialized was simply a support component....... that was the beginning for the home builder to be able to actually build any AKMs rifles...... I still live 3 miles from the old shop, Bud's old landlord still owns all of the equipment and paperwork that the BATF didn't confiscate ...........

Anyhow ya might wanna checkout ak-files.com there are folks new to home building AKs everyday hammering em together in an hour or two with super basic tools a 100% receiver such as the $55 Nodak spuds NDS3 only requires ya to slip in the trunions, the front is riveted with a pair of $10 bolt cutters with the jaws reground, the trigger gaurd can either be screwed or ya can rivet with a dimpled plate and a flat faced punch, the rear trunion rivets can be hammered down, pressed down or any number of other methods...... the barrel doesn't require any special tools to remove or replace on an AK a 1/4" flat faced punch to tap out the barrel pin, then a brass drift (or as many people use a few nickles and an olt socket extension) it only takes a couple smacks to tap it out, to reinstall ya only need a blank fireing adapter and some anti sieze but freezing the barrel and heating the trunion will result in a near hand slipped fit the blank fireing adapter will protect the muzzle it ya do need to tap it when the temps equalize its locked solid (sweat fit just like SKS or VZ58 barrels etc..) I've done alot of online tutorials to help out the home builder by putting away my presses and jigs etc.. and going totally low tech... start to finish it takes me 1 hour to build an AK from a parts kit that needs demilling using all the jigs etc.. as with customer builds without all the extras just using bare basic tools it takes 2 hours.........

ya think headspacing an AK is a big deal? tap out barrel pin, insert go gauge into chamber, tap barrel back against the go gauge, redrill barrel pin hole and install barrel pin remove gauge from chamber and your done, no need to even remove the dust cover let alone anything but the barrel pin....... is an AR easier than that? ;)

of course to get into advanced work on an AK you will need one specialty tool...... a hammer

heres ya a link to that bare bones AK build tutorial, there are actually several tutorials in the same thread all going with different ways to do the same job with bare minimal equipment....... the only real "tool" ya need to build one is a 7.62x39 go gauge a nogo gauge if ya wanna go with the original barrel position to check it, with just a go gauge ya can simply press the barrel back to the gauge and test the bolt for function, a tight fit on the go gauge is desirable as it will set a lil bit when fired the first 30-50 rounds..

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=25304

all of those methods are for a rivet build useing the Nodak spuds NDS3 receiver, takes a first time builder longer to remove the old rivets than it does to assemble the rifle, on average a first time AK builder using nothing but online tutorials will be shooting 2 hours after he starts, with jigs and a press ya can cut that down to about 1.5 hours or less if ya skip the case of beer some feel is mandatory prebuild equipment ;)
 
Thanks for the links. Good info.

Personally, I prefer the M1A over both the AR and AK. But I like distance. :)
 
If you go with a semi-auto you should have Extractor and Spring, Ejector and spring, a Firing pin. Basically all the small parts and springs. I have AK's, AR's and M1A's, all are easy to work on, field strip. The M1 would be harder to re-barrel. I think the M1A is the most reliable and accurate, also the heaviest.
 
And for a Mosin you just need a big rock to bash the bolt open if the chamber gets too dirty after a couple thousand rounds, right?

I had a primer explode (Bulgarian 50's light ball) and someone helped me stomp on the bolt to get it to open. Empty primer pocket! Then it went right back to shooting. I did a quick cleaning just to make sure there wasn't anything horrible in the chamber or bore.

They sure aren't target rifles, but when everyone else is using sticks and stones, the Mosin will keep on going.
 
BTW, I didn't include rifles like the Robison, because they are not widely distributed and parts are much harder to obtain. Plus, I don;t think they've been around enough to know what parts are likely to break or fail after extended use.

FWIW, XCR parts are easier to obtain than most guns that aren't made by several mfgs. They can be ordered on line at RA's website. Also, how do you define extended use, ie 10K rds, 20K, etc? There are plenty of owners out there with high round counts and no problems to show for it. Replacing the springs like any other gun is just about all you need to do as there are no gas rings to wear out.
 
Boston's Gun Bible has a very detailed and interesting review of all the semi-auto military pattern rifles, with much time and attention devoted to reliability and ease of maintenance. His conclusion was that the HK-91 (and quality clones) are the most durable, reliable, and easy to maintain of the battle rifles, though they may not be as accurate as an M1A.

I would highly recommend getting a copy of that book and reading through it. It is quite a lesson on guns.
 
Also, how do you define extended use, ie 10K rds, 20K, etc?

At least 10 years in service, preferably use in a combat environment. Everyone I know who owns one of those expensive 'one-off' rifles like the Expeditionary rifle, XCR, SR-25 etc, treats them like a baby. I can get AR and AK parts right here in town, or borrow them from friends.

AK, M1, M14, M16, Mauser 98, Mosin, SMLE, etc have all been dragged around in the mud, used in real wars by soldiers who often took less than ideal care of them. Their weaknesses in a high stress environment are well known and understood.
 
If you go with a semi-auto you should have Extractor and Spring, Ejector and spring, a Firing pin. Basically all the small parts and springs. I have AK's, AR's and M1A's, all are easy to work on, field strip. The M1 would be harder to re-barrel. I think the M1A is the most reliable and accurate, also the heaviest.

I'll give the reliability nod to the AK. I doubt you can find any semi or select fire weapon that can match the AK in reliability, particularly when it comes to neglect.

The M1A fixes a couple of problems with the M1. The bolt seizing issue is addressed by the roller lug. The M1A also has a detachable magazine. This may or may not be an advantage, depending on who you talk to.

Filed stripping almost any well designed military rifle is fairly easy, however, replacing an extractor on a M1A requires 3 hands unless you have the bolt disassembly tool. I've never had to replace the extractor on an AK, so can't comment on that, but on the M16/AR15 it is a trivial task, as is replacing the firing pin.

The AR is also typically more accurate than the M1A/M14 - even when the latter is accurized. That's why the AR now dominates service rifle competition. The M1A is also more challenging to scope.

But at long range, the 308 M1A/M14 still has enough energy to be dangerous. While match shooter compete successfully with the AR out to the 600 yard line, they only have to poke a hole in paper. Plus, the M1A/M14 makes a much better melee weapon than the AR.

After having extended experience with an HK G3 and 91, I cannot seriously recommend one. They are rugged, but it is hard to get parts, and one the rollers are out of spec, you are screwed. It was designed to be a disposable weapon - removed from service once worn out - not repaired.

And of course anyone who has field stripped one knows what a PITA it is if the bolt gets pushed closed.

Ergonomics suck on the HK. I've held 2x4s that had better engineering. And ejection is 'brisk' if not downright dangerous. Cases are also marked by the fluted chamber, and many folk won't reload them.

One rifle not mentioned previously by me is the FAL. It's a superb battle rifle with much better handling than the HK, and thanks to massive imports of parts, it's easy to get replacements. Some of the parts are however, badly worn. I have yet to see a nice FAL bolt hold open.

The FAL is also easier to scope than the HK, although in general accuracy is disappointing. It takes a huge amount of work to get an FAL to shoot as accurately as an off the shelf SA M1A 'loaded' model. Accurizing an M1A/M14 is a well understood process. Also, the trigger on the FAL is a real PITA to improve, although I keep hearing about a drop-in target trigger for the FAL. Any decent M1A mechanic can deliver a 4.5 pound, beautiful trigger on an M1A/M14, and if you plop down the $250 on a Rader trigger, you can get an absolutely phenomenal adjustable trigger that will go down to 1.5 pounds safely, if you dare.

Any rifle is going to be a compromise - there is no clearly superior weapon. It just depends on what factors are most important to you - durability, reliability, accuracy, range, etc.

For reliability, you simply cannot trump the AK
The AR beats all other semis in a accuracy, with 1/4 MOA rifles fairly easy to build.
The M1A and other 308 rifles have power and range

For bolt guns, the K98, the SMLE and the Mosin are the standard.
 
dstorm1911

After a complete read on your AK build, I'd let you do mine. Way too much work and tooling. :)

Nice description though, and great photos.
 
Mosin nagants are so cheap you don't buy spair parts you buy a spair Mosin :)

Mike
 
The best spare part is at least 3-4 of the same whole rifle. More if you can.


I don’t know what you have, domestic or import.

As for the imports, I’d buy as many parts kits as I can find.

I notice parts for the exotics are getting harder to find. Barrels being the most important now.

Though there was not another Mag Ban, I was very surprised that a barrel import ban also went through under the radar with the President Bush term.

Under normal conditions I’d want at least 3-4 full parts kits.

With the import ban in place, I’m trying to get all that are worth having since there will be no more new ones coming in.

All I’ll have to look forward to are LEO trade in’s and their condition is not that good.

Don’t forget those small parts, springs and screws.
 
Gun tech, as far as accurizing a FAL not too bad if ya start my throwin away the original barrel, ya can get a replacement made from a Rem 700 barrel in pretty much any short action caliber (.243 works exceptionally well) a member of FAL-files makes em and selles them for under $200, I did onea my unissued L1A1 kits with one about 3 years ago and its simply a tack driver and extremaly reliable, I do replace the bolt hold open pin on my L1A1s as I'm not fighting in the Sudan ;) his barrels are contoured and threaded to match the original or if you wish you can go to a heavy profile etc..

I recently did one myself for an STG58 kit I had (also in .243) and while it is a match for accuracy etc... to the L1A1 I fugure I have about $1500 worth of shop time into the barrel doing it myself LOL

once ya have the barrel (which also gets ya 1 922R part) then call up the guys at DSA and order their FCG it will make a huge difference in accuracy get their scope mount top cover while your placing the order and a gas piston and muzzle brake.

put some good glass on it and your done, it will be a rifle to surprise folks with, just be sure to mark the mags ya use with it if ya have more than one FAL so you don't inadvertantly grab a mag loaded with .308 or visa versa, I paint a dark od green band around the bottom 3rd of the .243 mags myself a friend who built him one uses blue electrical tape around the bottom to denote his .243 mags etc.. A FAL in .243 is like shooting a laser beam at the target
 
I built a couple of match barrels FALs from Hart and Lilja blanks.

bbl1.jpg

bbl2.jpg


I've also tuned a few FAL triggers, and it's a pain.

trigger.jpg


In fact, I spent about a year playing with FALs and working on accessories for same. You may have seen the match sight I designed and built, but no one was interested in production.

prod3.jpg
 
Mike 56 said:

Mosin nagants are so cheap you don't buy spair parts you buy a spair Mosin

I agree fully. At $79.00/per, it makes perfect sense to own at least 2, or 3, or 4, or 5.

Doc2005
 
Mosin Nagants and AK's

can,have been, and probibly are, being made in basements and wood sheds around the world with nothing more than hand tools
 
It depends on the firearm. On my Mosin, the only parts subject to replacement are the magazine springs and the extractor claw. The interruptor ejector can also wear out after a few wars. On my M-91 the claw is somewhat worn down so I keep a spare with it.

With AK clones, the problems in my experience have been magazine-related so spare mags are a good idea.

With the Garand it might be a spare of the operating rod.
 
Andrewsky

Thanks. I was never show how to use the combo to on the bolt. Just tried it and it works great! I just wish the op rod on these SA M1As wasn't such a PITA to remove.
 
I was hoping you could tell me how to use the combination tool. I've never tried it and don't live near my M1A right now.

Trouble with your operating rod? The one on my SOCOM pops on and off very easily. You just gotta jiggle it a little.:p
 
I may be biased but, I think the M1 Garand actually is a great choice for the parameters requested. It is rugged, accurate, and pretty easy to maintain (so long as you're not talking about a match accurized version). The only real specialized tools you "need" (short of rebarrelling) are a gas lock wrench and bolt disassembly tool. Buy a couple extra firing pins and put in an Orion 7 op rod spring and you are probably good until the barrel is dead. Even better, buy a woodless rack grade for parts from CMP. HXP ammo can be had already clipped/bandolier'd from CMP for cheap. Run with good grease and use milspec ammo and you'll be fine. If can't get milspec ammo then McCann gas nuts (~$40) give you the ability to run just about ANY 30-06 ammo through the rifle without damaging the op rod. If you reload even this shouldn't be a problem although having the gas nuts gives you even more flexibility and I really think no Garand owner should be without a set.
With respect to the barrels and wear out; I have a couple of rifles that are over 5K rounds. Yes, accuracy has fallen to about 4 or 5 MOA in one of them. Still very useable for hunting and self defense at less than 150 yards.
I maintain several of these for myself and friends and have learned enough to be pretty self sufficient with the M1; I think it's not that hard and fun besides!
I do think qualifying for CMP (which isn't hard) is key to the above, however. You get access to reasonably priced rifles, ammo, tools, and in some cases (like barrels) parts.

Regards,

Bob

P.S. BTW, Boston's updated version is pretty complementary to the M14/M1A as well as the M1 Garand. His gun bible is stuffed chock full of great info. Even though I do not agree with all of his conclusions or preferences regarding some of his choice guns, he gives great data and great rationale for his preferences. This is another must-have reference for all gun folk out there.
 
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