Abrams - Scalia got it wrong

[.cheese.]

He just said on TV that the entire basis of the decision today was based on fraud. He cited somebody in history (forget the name) who claimed that the NRA twisted the meaning of the 2A into what we here at THR believe it means.

He even cited his own law review article on it in which he supposedly exposes the fraud that is the individual rights theory.

This all was followed by a Georgetown law professor who wouldn't answer about the ruling on a legal basis and just kept spewing about how more guns would mean more crime and deaths.

Could somebody enlighten me more on what this "fraud" is he is referring to?

 

[Big45]

I just saw that. Abrams is a buffoon. And the law professor's arguement was that guns would now flourish in the homes of the law abiding which would encourage criminals to break in and steal them. I'm sitting there with my mossberg persuader laying right in front of me thinking "really?" Oh and he cited Warren Berger

 

[SCPigpen]

Abrams is the faud!!

 

[taliv]

NOW THEREFORE, In the interest of brotherly love, peace, friendship, self-promotion, political grandstanding, and all that, I TALIV, Prince and Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St Adrian of Nicomedia, Patron saint of Arms Dealers, of Cookeville, of Algood and of Baxter, Most Humble Guardian of the Poor of Jesus Christ, Do hereby Proclaim:

even scrotusblog is featuring a post by someone who claims that the DC ban reduced violence by 25%

(obviously, the mayor isn't the only one smoking crack over there)

 

[jfrey]

Ain't no fraud, just rampant stupidity by a bunch of liberal elite who couldn't find the truth if it bit 'um in the butt.

 

[Ridgeway]

i saw that segment, and i found it surprising even for both msnbc and abrams
matthews had @ least made a pretense of a rational discussion w/wayne lapierre and the brady fellow on hardball
but i wasn't aware that abrams was such an outright loon (as was the georgetown prof)- simply amazing

i miss tucker- he was the only host/show worth really watching on that channel

 

[Professor Gun]

Can't fix stupid.

 

[camacho]

He cited somebody in history (forget the name) who claimed that the NRA twisted the meaning of the 2A into what we here at THR believe it means.

Abrams was referring to Chief Justice Warren Burger. Guess what, that ****** bag Abrams, took it right from the Brady's web site, Not that I am surprised. http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=second

former Supreme Court Chief Justice Warren Burger referred to the Second Amendment as "the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word ‘fraud,' on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime...[the NRA] ha(s) misled the American people and they, I regret to say, they have had far too much influence on the Congress of the United States than as a citizen I would like to see - and I am a gun man." Burger also wrote, "The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon...urely the Second Amendment does not remotely guarantee every person the constitutional right to have a ‘Saturday Night Special' or a machine gun without any regulation whatever. There is no support in the Constitution for the argument that federal and state governments are powerless to regulate the purchase of such firearms..."

 

[MechAg94]

There is no fraud at all. There are various quotes from different founding fathers of the time showing that they thought gun ownership was pretty important.


Not to mention that there have been nice big studies showing that availability and prevalence of guns has little or no effect on crime if maybe a bit to the good against crime. Other factors affect crime a lot more such as enforcing laws effectively, strict punishment, and encouraging self defense versus failure to prosecute criminals, early parole of violent criminals, and specifically punishing people who use guns to defend themselves. It just happens that the type of thinking that believes in gun control generally also supports policies that coddle criminals and encourages them to continue and get worse.

 

[taliv]

NOW THEREFORE, In the interest of brotherly love, peace, friendship, self-promotion, political grandstanding, and all that, I TALIV, Prince and Grand Master of the Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St Adrian of Nicomedia, Patron saint of Arms Dealers, of Cookeville, of Algood and of Baxter, Most Humble Guardian of the Poor of Jesus Christ, Do hereby Proclaim:

Abrams is a ******. The NRA has fairly routinely supported restrictions. They support a lot more restrictions than I do.

Knocking down strawmans like that is a lot like playing games with difficulty set to 'cupcake', which I suppose is about as much as Abrams and Brady can handle these days.

 

[wristtwister]

I'm still trying to figure out what part of "shall not be infringed upon" the legal community, especially SCOTUS, can't understand...

Pelosi and her nazis are already at work trying to skirt the new law finding, and marshalling forces to try and do an end run around the decision. What all us "gun-totin' crazies" need to do is to contact them and suggest that we re-institute all those old policies that were erased during the civil rights era... putting voter-tests back in play, etc. and see how they squeal. It makes a hell of a lot more sense for a voter to have to take a qualification test than a gun owner... but not to a liberal. After all... see what we've gotten with "uninformed voters"... If Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid are the best examples of "informed voting", we are in DEEP trouble.

Barack Obama has the potential of being one of my three favorite presidents... George Washington couldn't tell a lie... Richard Nixon couldn't tell the truth... and Barack Obama can't tell the difference. It's amazing that we have such politicians vying to run our country.

The Clintons spent 8 years pouring over every detail of everything political, and all it took to purge their memory is a subpoena. They couldn't remember anything. Now, we've got Barack Obama sitting in church for 20 years and never heard a single word that Jerimiah Wright said in his rants over white America and white Americans... and he said that the DC gun ban was legal and constitutional, until it was ruled against... and then he started pandering that the 2nd Amendment needed to be upheld.

Watch these guys, folks... they'll say anything that they think will get them a vote, at any time and to anybody.

WT

 

[MechAg94]

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/heller-discussion-board-a-toe-in-the-water/

Scotusblog had this piece that mentioned that 25% number and gives the cite.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Now, we've got Barack Obama sitting in church for 20 years and never heard a single word that Jerimiah Wright said in his rants over white America and white Americans... and he said that the DC gun ban was legal and constitutional, until it was ruled against... and then he started pandering that the 2nd Amendment needed to be upheld.

Attention deficit disorder? But I hope no one will interject the subject of attention deficit disorder into this election. It is time for Americans to elect a President with attention deficit disorder.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Who is Abrams? I'm a lawyer who's cared about RKBA for a long time and I've never heard of him.

Has Dan Polsby been on any shows? I had him for criminal law. Great guy.

Anyway, I think it's obvious to anyone who cares to register on THR that a surprisingly large segment of our society has drunk the fraud-side "collective right" kool-aid. I am continually surprised by the otherwise smart people who believe that idiocy.

 

[Gunsby_Blazen]

Both Abrams and Obermann are the reason I dont watch that channel anymore. I just hope that those people who buy into their crap dont vote.

 

[Gunsby_Blazen]

COUNTDOWN WORSE PEOPLE, is this guy for real???

I just came across this video,
watch it, and the end will make your blood boil
he is a complete moron!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#25402317

this is the kind of junk that they will be pushing down our necks every night.

 

[wristtwister]

I'd like to think that Keith Olberman was having a good time there, but like the guys in "Road House"... he's too stupid to have a good time. Like all good liberals, he picks numbers out of the air and asserts that they are "facts". The "30,000 deaths yearly" appears to be closer to 7,000 from what I could find from the CDC, but they were still "conditional", and if they need to ban something, they should take a look at automobile and motorcycle deaths. They dwarf the gun statistics, as do the deaths from mistakes in the hospital.

Googling "gun death statistics" reveals that most liberal anti-gun groups, like the "million mom march" overstate their statistical data by 60 percent or so, and attribute every death by gun to whichever category they're trying to attack at the time. They ignore that many of the "children" killed by gunfire are drug dealers, and are shot by other drug dealers in drug related incidents... but why bother to charaterize it properly? They also lump suicides into their "statistics" because their high numbers drop drastically when they only report what actually occurs.

I've learned to turn off the libs when I'm unfortunate enough to get within earshot of their rants, because like watching Oprah, it causes brain damage. My boss thinks its hilarious when he asks me where I've been and I tell him "in the break room, listening to the IQ's dropping"...

WT

 

[Dark_Harvest]

wristtwister...


fixed it for ya!


"Barack Obama has the potential of being one of my three favorite presidents... George Washington couldn't tell a lie... Bill Clinton couldn't tell the truth... and Barack Obama can't tell the difference. It's amazing that we have such politicians vying to run our country."


Great quote, otherwise!

 

[Cosmoline]

e cited somebody in history (forget the name) who claimed that the NRA twisted the meaning of the 2A into what we here at THR believe it means.

Probably former Chief Justice Warren Burger. With the emphasis on FORMER. He was by all accounts not exactly a bright bulb. Nothing to match Scalia.

 

[Zoogster]

I believe he did get it wrong, but not the way Abrams does.

How can the SCOTUS get a ruling "wrong" based on the potential outcome?
The SCOTUS job is not to change the constitution, or decide it is outdated and needs change. That is for other branches of government to consider (if they did I am sure they would lose all credibility.)

The SCOTUS job is to uphold the constitution, not do what is best for the nation.
They have some discretion in issues not specificly mentioned.
In others they have strict constitutional interpretations to uphold. If congress wishes to change the constitution that is thier job, SCOTUS is just supposed to uphold what is already there, not create what they feel is the best situation.


So many people have this twisted. The SCOTUS is not the supreme legislative body in the nation. They are the final interpreters.

Any person that is upset that they did not change something, if they merely upheld the constitution does not understand the system of government we have in The United States of America.

Now I do not believe they upheld the constitution which clearly says "shall not be infringed" not "shall be infringed only with 'reasonable restrictions'".

That is a seperate issue.

 

[caseypj]

Olbermann is a nut, if we applied his reasoning to the first amendment, the first amendment would not protect the right of free speech on the radio, tv, the Internet, and color newspapers.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

George Washington couldn't tell a lie... Richard Nixon couldn't tell the truth... and Barack Obama can't tell the difference.

Now that right there is funny...I don't care who you are...

 

[Thernlund]

How can the SCOTUS get a ruling "wrong" based on the potential outcome?

That's right. Cart before the horse.

The SCOTUS is not the supreme legislative body in the nation. They are the supreme judicial body.

Better.


-T.

 

[mekender]

the last two lines of Scalia's statement said it best

Undoubtedly some think that the Second Amendment is outmoded in a society where our standing army is the pride of our Nation, where well-trained police forces provide personal security, and where gun violence is a serious problem. That is perhaps debatable, but what is not debatable is that it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct.

basically, they acknowledged that the SCOTUS does not have the authority to change the 2nd amendment... only the legislature, with the approval of the states has the power to repeal/amend the constitution... so if the anti's dont like the ruling so much, they are free to try to get the 2nd repealed...

frankly, i would love to see them try... there is no way they could do it and it would end up being a huge money sink for them... plus it would show you just how deranged and unhinged they really are when they started spouting 'facts'

 

[H088]

In one way it would be great to have them try to do a head on attack of the 2nd, they would be completely crushed.