absolute nightmare -- home break-in

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ACP

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This happened to my best friend Jeff Tuesday evening:
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EAST HAMPTON, Conn. -- An East Hampton man was arrested after police said he tried to throw his girlfriend out of a window and then went on a home-invasion spree. It began at the Chatham Apartments. According to police, Willliam Scott, 36, was trying to toss his live-in girlfriend out of a third-floor window headfirst. According to police, neighbors intervened and Scott bolted, heading down Collie Brook Road. Police said Scott tried to enter a home, but the homeowner did not let him in. Police said Scott then dashed across the street, grabbed several knives and stole a car. Scott sped down Collie Brook Road and onto Middletown Avenue, police said. When he came around a bend he spun out and brought his car to a stop. Police then chased him on foot and arrested him.
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Here's what Jeff just told me:

Everyone is allright, but they are still very shaken. He lives in a small town in eastern Connecticut, married, two small children (5 and 7), a Boxer for a pet dog. No firearms in the house, though he has expressed an interest in the past in a revolver.

He says Tuesday evening between 8 and 8:15 everyone is on the second floor of his two-story home. From downstairs in the kitchen they hear a loud "bang," followed shortly by another loud "bang." The dog races downstairs, followed by Jeff and his wife Darlene.

As they come around the corner from the living room and into the kitchen, there is a stranger standing in the kitchen. The dog is biting the guy's leg, and Darlene calls the dog off (she would later ask Jeff "Why did I call the dog off?")

Darlene says "Who are you? Get out of our house!" "Kill me" the man replies. Jeff says he can tell the guy is one something "pretty heavy." Jeff tells the guy to get out. He repeats his "just kill me" statement. He starts pacing the kitchen floor and repeating "Just kill me." Darlene dials 9-1-1 from the kitchen phone on the wall.

The guy then grabs two kitchen knives off the kitchen counter butcher block and demands money and car keys. Darlene screams into the phone "He's got a knife" and police tell her they are 30 seconds away (they later learned the guy had tried to break into the neighbor's home and that neighbor had already called 9-1-1).

Jeff says he is within arms reach of the man the entire time, but the guy never tries to close the distance. He says his blood pressure really went up when they guy grabbed the knives and became more agitated.

He calmly tells Darlene to go upstairs and get her wallet and car keys. She does. She meets the kids on the stairs, who have heard the commotion, gone downstairs, peeked around the corner and seen the perp. She tells the 5 y.o. to hide in her bedroom closet and the 7 y.o. to lock himself in his bedroom. They do. She gets her wallet and car keys and goes back downstairs.

The perp paws through the wallet -- no cash. He leaves the wallet, takes the keys and goes outside to start Jeff's old Honda in the driveway. He backs down the driveway, across the street, up onto the neighbor's lawn, and the police arrive. The chase is on. The guy only gets a little bit down the road when they somehow stop him and cuff him.

Background: the guy had been smoking crack earlier in the evening. He wanted his girlfriend to write some bad checks so he could cash them for crack money. She wouldn't, so he tried to throw her out a 3rd story apt. window but failed. She called 9-1-1. The police chased him and lost him when he crashed his car, bailed, and ran through my friend's neighborhood.

He first ran across the street, and tried to break into the neighbor's home. That homeowner heard the commotion, barricaded the door, and told his wife to "call 9-1-1 and get my rifle."

The perp then disapperared across the street, rummaged through my friend's minivan and sedan in his driveway, then kicked in his kitchen door with two kicks.

Lessons I take from this:

1. Living "in the country" doesn't make you immune from crime.
2. Have strong doors, doorframes, and locks.
3. Have a dog; don't call him off.
4. Have a handgun (Little old "Blue State" CT is a "shall issue" state); practice with it and learn the local laws on self-defense.
5. Have a partner, like a roommate or a wife, call 9-1-1 and secure the family (if any). If he/she has a secondary weapon, all the better.

Any other suggestions?
 
And turn the handgun into a 12ga. A pistol ain't going to stop no crack addled up heathen nearly fast enough.
 
Il Duca And turn the handgun into a 12ga. A pistol ain't going to stop no crack addled up heathen nearly fast enough.

A few 0.45 inch holes will...but in this case, sounds like an attempted suicide by homeowner shooting. Strange.
 
Watching him arm himself with edged weapons while in arms reach was a mistake. When he started to reach for the knives would have been when I engaged him (empty hand if necessary). If you aren't armed and don't have good H2H skills, then retreat, don't stay close to a drugged up nut who is grabbin' knives. Either take him out or take yourself and family out of the situation.

If you can't get everybody to safety and you don't have the means/expertise to take him out...be thankful you survived anyway and get thee to a good firearms and H2H training school, preferably one that knows how to teach an integrated approach. "Southnarc's" Extreme Close Quarters shooting course comes to mind.

Glad it ended OK and your friend is safe.
 
Had this happpened in a castle doctrine state, and had the homeowner been armed, when would it, during the events detailed, have been appropriate, if at all, to fire a weapon ending the threat?
 
In Florida, shooting him would have been well within the law, not to kill of course but to stop. Because this thing happened in stages, there was actually probable moments when shooting would have not been appropriate. When he broke in the house and the dog attacked had the home owner walked into the kitchen at that moment armed and shot the intruder a reasonable claim that harm was imminent could have been made. The next stage where the dog is called off and everyone is speaking (relatively calmly) shooting would likely not been justifiable (would really depend on how you represented the situation when you made your statement with your lawyer present ). When the goblin reached for the knives he then escalated the situation again making the use of deadly force permissible.
 
"Your terms are acceptable."

...when would it ... have been appropriate ... to fire a weapon ending the threat?
A stranger has broken into your occupied home at oh-dark-thirty, has weapons, and is talking about someone dying in the next few minutes/seconds. Your wife and children are present.

You do not call off the dog, you do not fiddle with wallets & keys.

You stop him.
Now.
Decisively.

Even 30 seconds waiting for a cop to assuredly arrive is an awfully long time.
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Oh crap the cop still hasn't arrived, much less get engage the VCA, much less stop him decisively. That was a long time from "1", and the situation is still underway.

'nuff said?
 
He repeats his "just kill me" statement.

How about a compromise? Two well placed shots to the groin ought to do the trick. :cool:

Then again, maybe not, since he obviously didn't have a pair to begin with.

:eek:
 
Handguns will work fine, even for heavily intoxicated persons. Just make sure to get good hits and the target will be a lot worse for wear.

Guns are a lot like punching - the more powerful ones that hit vital areas are the best. Compromise on the aiming and you'll be doing a lot of physical exertion...
 
BUY TWO

buy a pistol for upstairs and a scattergun for down........

I also live in a two story and like your friend alot of the time the whole family is upstairs, I am well armed anywhere in the house.....However buying just one firearm and keeping located in the downstairs bedroom is just the same as being unarmed if you cant make it to your bedroom.
 
Spoke with Darlene this morning and Jeff at dinnertime. Here's the update:

1. They're both taking the NRA safety course and then applying for CT concealed carry handgun permits.

2. I have offered to take them to the shop where my club president is a salesman and let them fondle some S&W's, Rugers, Glocks, etc., whatever their hearts desire, so they can get a "feel" for what they like.

3. I have also offered to take them to my club to shoot my revolvers and semiautos to see what they like (disclaimer -- I don't have any 9mms or 40s. They'll either like the .38/.357 and the .45 or find something else!)

4. I've already e-mailed them my suggestions-- a S&W .38 Airweight for Darlene, who wants to carry something full-time with the kids in her purse or pants pocket, and a 4" S&W .357 revolver for both of them. Both revolvers to be kept in a safe/Gun Vault upstairs in their bedroom (I suggested a Gun Vault -- I love mine.)


5. They need to get up to speed on CT lethal force law.

6. Darlene says this perp has 9 PRIOR FELONIES, and that he is accused of commiting 4 MORE FELONIES the night of the incident. This dude is seriously circling the drain. But at least they are now committed to not letting "chance" bless them again in such a scenario. Darlene says if she is home alone with the kids, she'll hunker upstairs behind a locked door and shoot whoever comes through it...
 
Glad your firends' made it out of this situation safely and the kids paid attention to the mother ACP.

You know the answer to the defensive unarmed against the knife right?

I also feel the dog played a role in keeping the EDP from entering even further into the house before he was "noticed"

Brownie
 
Believe me, Robin, I wish you were still around!

Funny thing -- when I got married 7 years ago, Jeff was one of my groomsmen -- they all got Benchmade AFCK's in Black Ti! Jeff and Dar need to get themselves to the Academy for some knife defense and practical pistol classes.

Of course I immediately thought of you when I heard about the incident. Darlene tells me he brandished a long, serrated bread knife and a chef's knife (the big, nasty-looking type). Hopefully he would have come overhanded, so I could block it, stick my off arm behind his forearm, and fulcrum him down to his knees, grabbing his knife hand and driving the blade point repeatedly into his temple, shouting "Why are you stabbing yourself?? Why are you stabbing yourself??"

Oh, the things one remembers from a knife defense course... :D
 
Unfortunate

In Michigan, it would have been fully legal to shoot the person. What is unfortunate is that this will haunt their minds for forever.

I will have to print this thread for my wife, who frequently asks, "Why are you wearing your Glock?"

Doc2005
 
I also live in east hampton

ACP, I live in town and would gladly take you and your friends to the range for a try and practice. It is true being in a small town doesn't make you immune from crime or disorder. Meth is now in the East, there was a big raid and two labs were shut down in town last year. I would still rather be here than in Bridgeport which was where I lived before.

pete
 
ACP,
Also please help introduce the two kids (5 & 7) to firearm safety, if the parents concur. (Here's to hoping they do) Cap guns (anyone remember Mattel's Fanner 50?), Rubber band guns, BB guns... whatever. Not so much as toys (well, you know what I mean), but as a means of safe, responsible firearm handling, WITH a Parent involved each time they're brought out, (maybe?) with a promise of a future .22lr Cricket or something as reward for responsible action. Or something like that.
Like it or not, this involved the entire family in one manner or another and the introduction of a firearm or two into the household should be discussed with an eye towards future use by every family member, albeit sometime down the road.
 
after reading this

Your friend was lucky. sounds like the gun wouldn't have helped him. if your thinking about calling dogs off and getting keys and wallets YOUR MIND AIN'T SET RIGHT. Not criticizing just trying to help. after buying the gun help him work on getting that right frame of mind. for those that have been there and done that you know what i mean.

OH and Thank your local lawman or soldier. I'll tell you why. for some folks this will be the first time they have ever seen, heard, or felt what it's like to be in the $#@!. seconds to act and three, four, five lives in the balance. some of them, not all mind you, but some been through this with a lot less favorable results and they carry this with them every day.
 
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