Accuracy Failure with Pulled 147 FMJ Bullets in 300 Blackout

[luzyfuerza]

Some time ago, I bought 3k pulled 147 grain FMJ bullets to use in my Garands. They were CHEAP!

I've tried to use these bullets in my 300 blackout SBR (10.5" bbl, pistol gas system, free float handguard) using charges of IMR4227, W296, AA1680, and some surplus WC820. Accuracy has been terrible with every load that I've tried (10+" "patterns" at 100 yards).

It isn't the gun. I shot factory Remington 120 grain OTFBs into a five-shot 1 1/8" group at 100 yards. Factory Barnes 110 grain TAC-TX went into 2 3/8". Factory Hornaday 208 grain AMAX were 2 1/2". Factory SigSauer 220 grain were 2 1/4". Not tack-driver accuracy and I'm sure that I can do better, but all of these groups are a lot better than 10+".

It's not my loading technique, either. Initial loads (no accuracy workup) I put together with WC820 using Sierra, Speer, and Nosler boat-tail 150 grain projectiles produced 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" five shot groups at 50 yards.

I have lots of these 147 grain projectiles left. What do you suggest I do to squeeze every bit of accuracy out these projectiles in the blackout?

 

[illinoisburt]

How fast are you loading them? If slow it could be poor stabilization mixed with shock from going subsonic. I would try loading them to around 2300 fps and see what accuracy you get.

 

[illinoisburt]

As a second thought, did you ever load them in the Garand and if so how was accuracy there?

 

[luzyfuerza]

My handload velocities were about 1800-1900 fps. Nothing hot. I don't have data on the factory loads (chronograph doesn't like low winter sun).

A max charge of 4227 or W296 yields about 1900 fps in a 16" barrel with 150 grain bullets, and about 2080 fps with AA1680. Illinoisburt, do you have a powder in mind that can achieve 2300 fps with a 147 grain bullet in 300 blackout?

 

[luzyfuerza]

More data:

Twenty bullets averaged 147.75 grains, with a standard deviation of only 0.22 grains.

Concentricity is terrible. I've seen outside diameter vary from 0.310" down to 0.304" on the same bullet measured at the cannelure! Is there anything that I can do to eliminate this?

 

[LoonWulf]

there isnt a load that can do 2300 in that weight afaik. Ive gotten my 150s/w296 to 2000 and change out of a 16.25 on my RA, but primers were really flat and the bullets loaded really long.
Your gun may just REALLY not like those bullets, Its happend to me before, or perhaps they are slightly out of round. Check a few especially if you tend to have a group hit pretty well together, then some land randomly farther out.

...question answered....not really, i think if you had a bullet sizer in .308 you could maybe get them closer.

edit too.....and you now probably know why they were super cheap. Might be worth recycling them and starting anew if you cant get them round...er

 

[RecoilRob]

A Lee push-through sizer setup in .308 would probably help a little, but it can't make something measuring .304 come up to .308. For accurate loading you might need to measure and cull out all the really lumpy ones and shoot only the most round ones you can find. Be mindful of bullet runout after loading. These are BT's...yes? That leaves very little contact within the neck compared to a flat-base at the same OAL so you might be getting a lot of runout particularly after being cycled through the magazine. Might be worth checking them before loading, then fire and eject the next round....and see if the runout has changed after being slammed into the chamber. I keep all target ammo well under .006" if I expect it to shoot accurately. Good luck....this is part of the fun of reloading! Would be great if you can figure out a way to make them shoot. Have you tried deep seating them so the neck contacts above the cannelure? Might be worth a try.

 

[IMtheNRA]

I don't think there's anything to fix defective bullets. They were pulled for a reason, and you may have discovered it. Add in bullet damage from loading and pulling them, and it makes for a grim accuracy prognosis.

I realize that pulled and blems are popular among some reloaders, but from I've seen, they offer very low value to the consumer, unless you just want machine gun blasting ammo.

 

[SCC]

I've tried the 147gr bullets (new ones) in various 300 BLK loads, both super and sub, AR and RARR, suppressed and unsuppressed. Every other bullet I've used is more accurate for me. As said above, blasting ammo. I'll add under 50 yards to that. I've still got several hundred of them too.

 

[Bart B.]

There are bullet pullers that work at high speeds and squeeze round bullets oval shaped. Your bullet that measured .310" ninety degrees from its .304" diameter when round, it probably measured .3075" which is the middle of its diameters now.

Best used as slingshot ammo now.

 

[Walkalong]

My handload velocities were about 1800-1900 fps

Which would be enough to stabilize them, but out of round bullets simply won't shoot well. Any decent 147/150 Gr FMJ will shoot much better than 5", much less 10" at 100 yards in 300 BLK.

 

[illinoisburt]

My oversight on the fps. 2300 is for lighter projectiles. Point was trying to make is if you were loading around 1100-1200 might be getting issues with stabilization and dropping subsonic on way to target.

However since you have concentricity issues there is pretty much nothing you can do that will fix that. A sizer in theory could make them rounder but only if you were going down enough that they wouldn't fit 308 anymore.

 

[luzyfuerza]

I don't think there's anything to fix defective bullets. They were pulled for a reason, and you may have discovered it. Add in bullet damage from loading and pulling them, and it makes for a grim accuracy prognosis.

I realize that pulled and blems are popular among some reloaders, but from I've seen, they offer very low value to the consumer, unless you just want machine gun blasting ammo.

I do wish that I had a machine gun...

I guess that I was expecting something that wouldn't be quite as good as new, fresh, quality bullets, but I never dreamed that this stuff could be this far out of round. Live and learn! They WERE cheap, after all!

I've run a few through a Lee 0.309" sizing die, and, as you all noted, this didn't seem to make a whole lot of difference in concentricity. I may get a 0.307" sizing die, and see if there is any difference between how the raw bullets, those sized to 0.309" and those sized to 0.307" shoot in my gun. If I can get 10+" groups down to 5", that would be a big improvement!

Mic-ing 2,500 bullets to find the 20% or so that have less than 2 mils of runout doesn't sound like a lot of fun...

 

[medalguy]

You could try a Lee resizing die. That has helped some people with distorted pulled bullets.

I have bought and used thousands of pulled .308 bullets. I discovered early on that some lots are pretty accurate (for M80 bullets) and others are really bad. Those I use for my 1919A4 where accuracy isn't an issue. The bullets sold as "air pulled" whatever that is have been the most accurate for me.

 

[Laphroaig]

I've used those M80 bullets in the past for short range Garand and 1903 ammo with decent success. I must have been lucky.

I'd mic them on some cold winter night to salvage what you can. 3K is a lot of bad bullets. I feel your pain. Sometimes we try to get some deals for cheap components that don't always pan out. I know from experience!

 

[243winxb]

http://www.corbins.com/prfx1.htm Damaged Bullet Reform Kit, FX-1

 

[kingmt]

I call this stuff bang ammo. It's about as much fun as firecrackers. However I can offer something that helped for mine. Since I couldn't get the bullet to stay in the case turned the right way I flipped them & seated them backwards. My groups shrunk by half. They still pretty well suck tho. But I don't mind enjoying sending a few down range.

 

[243winxb]

If the oval bullets have little to no neck tension, how about using a Lee factory crimp die?

 

[Kaldor]

Some time ago, I bought 3k pulled 147 grain FMJ bullets to use in my Garands. They were CHEAP!

I've tried to use these bullets in my 300 blackout SBR (10.5" bbl, pistol gas system, free float handguard) using charges of IMR4227, W296, AA1680, and some surplus WC820. Accuracy has been terrible with every load that I've tried (10+" "patterns" at 100 yards).

It isn't the gun. I shot factory Remington 120 grain OTFBs into a five-shot 1 1/8" group at 100 yards. Factory Barnes 110 grain TAC-TX went into 2 3/8". Factory Hornaday 208 grain AMAX were 2 1/2". Factory SigSauer 220 grain were 2 1/4". Not tack-driver accuracy and I'm sure that I can do better, but all of these groups are a lot better than 10+".

It's not my loading technique, either. Initial loads (no accuracy workup) I put together with WC820 using Sierra, Speer, and Nosler boat-tail 150 grain projectiles produced 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" five shot groups at 50 yards.

I have lots of these 147 grain projectiles left. What do you suggest I do to squeeze every bit of accuracy out these projectiles in the blackout?

I dont have a solution for you, as I shoot Hornady 150gr FMJ's for blaster fodder for my 300 BO. They group under 2" which I consider good enough for this gun. Hornady 125gr SST's group right around an inch for me. 16" BHW barrel.

Im not sure what you paid for them, but with 150 gr FMJ's at less than 20 cents each, Id just stick with proven new bullets. Ive thought long and hard about pulls, but horror stories like yours reinforce why I just buy new.

 

[IMtheNRA]

Lee FCD won't get your case neck to conform to an oval bullet. Those look like scrap metal to me.

 

[illinoisburt]

Just a random thought. If you loaded the bullet into the case then ran it through a Lee collet neck sizing die without the mandrel would it not potentially true up the bullet some? Since imagine neck tension would be poor afterwards use a fcd as next step? Might be a little undersized but maybe...???

 

[Reloadron]

Some time ago, I bought 3k pulled 147 grain FMJ bullets to use in my Garands. They were CHEAP!

I've tried to use these bullets in my 300 blackout SBR (10.5" bbl, pistol gas system, free float handguard) using charges of IMR4227, W296, AA1680, and some surplus WC820. Accuracy has been terrible with every load that I've tried (10+" "patterns" at 100 yards).

It isn't the gun. I shot factory Remington 120 grain OTFBs into a five-shot 1 1/8" group at 100 yards. Factory Barnes 110 grain TAC-TX went into 2 3/8". Factory Hornaday 208 grain AMAX were 2 1/2". Factory SigSauer 220 grain were 2 1/4". Not tack-driver accuracy and I'm sure that I can do better, but all of these groups are a lot better than 10+".

It's not my loading technique, either. Initial loads (no accuracy workup) I put together with WC820 using Sierra, Speer, and Nosler boat-tail 150 grain projectiles produced 1 1/8" to 1 1/4" five shot groups at 50 yards.

I have lots of these 147 grain projectiles left. What do you suggest I do to squeeze every bit of accuracy out these projectiles in the blackout?

Well it isn't the gun, it isn't your loading technique and it looks like you have tried a wide range of powders so that leaves us with the bullets themselves. Bad bullets happen and there really is not a good way around it. You can buy something and try to reshape but that becomes a matter of throwing more good money down the drain. You can either shoot them and take what they give you for accuracy or simply let them become scrap metal. Shooting them will not afford any satisfaction unless you like large groups which pretty much leaves trashing them as scrap metal. You have apparently tried all of the viable options like finding a load they shoot well with and came up with nothing.

Ron

 

[kingmt]

I almost agree with Ron here. Bump up dies are what you'd need to fix then which is costly & in the end they are still just junky fmj bullets. I spent a bunch of money trying to get pulled 223 bullets to shot little groups. I was told I was wasting my time. I don't think I was wasting my time because I was a fun project & I learnt something doing it. I learnt they are junky pulled fmj bullets & three won't sit tiny groups. However I did get them to .75" groups with 4064 powder but what a pain to load in those tinny necks.

I'd just ether load them backwards & shoot as what I call bang ammo(slightly more fun then forecrackers) or save them for when you don't have anything else to shoot.