Accuracy of Spring Field M1A Loaded

[pyrolater]

I was thinking about getting a Loaded M1A from Spring Field. I talked with them and they told me they guarantee the rifle to shoot under 3 moa.

Seems like thats a lot of moa for a brand new gun these days.

Quesion is: if you have one how does it shoot? How acccurate is one out of the box.

I wanted to shoot some High Power with it ( just for fun) and I don't think I could live with 3 moa.

 

[ShunZu]

If you do a search for M1A, you'll see lots and lots of threads and posts about them. You'll may also see a post about my national match M1A (bought new about 8 years ago) that's been back to the factory twice for unsatisfactory accuracy. They simply shoot a group and send it back saying 2 MoA is okay with them. IMHO when you lay out the kind of cash I did for it, plus their factory bipod and a stack of their expensive 20 rounders, AND the 2nd gen scope mount, you'd think the rifle should perform better than the average $700 out-of-the-box AR, but I've got a couple junkers in the safe that outshoot the silly M1A of mine all the time. Maybe you'll have better luck. A beautiful rifle to look at though... and mine's queen of the gun safe. All show.

 

[jpwilly]

AR's dominate High Power...M1A's cannot keep up.

 

[GunTech]

First, you should understand that there is a lot of BS about rifles that shoot MOA or sub MOA. If someone is only shooting 3 rounds, and uses the phrase 'called shot' or flyer, it's is no MOA rifle.

A 'loaded' M1A fed decent ammo like 168gn FGMM should routinely shoot 2 MOA or better. By that I mean it will shoot 10 five round groups into under 2.084 inches CTC at 100 yards - repeatably, one right after another with no 'flyers'.

If you get a good stock fit, you can get 1.5 MOA.

You may shoot much better groups occasionally, but you can pretty much count on 2 MOA any time, in almost any conditions.

If you consider that the US Army specification for acceptance was 10 rounds into 5.5 inches at 100 yards with ball ammo, that's not too bad.
The best M1As I've shot would reliably shoot just under 1 MOA. They'd have groups that were much smaller, but 1 MOA was repeatable time and time again with good ammo.

By contrast, it is not hard to build an AR that will routinely shoot 1/2 MOA, and some will routinely shoot even better. jpwilly is dead on. M1A are basically non-existent in service rifle matches. They can't keep up with the ARs.

And lest you think that 2 MOA sucks, try the following with your deer rifle:

Shoot 10 groups of 5 rounds at 100 yards. Measure the size of your worst group. That is what your rifle shoots. 'Capable' of sub MOA is basically meaningless. Anyone can get lucky. The key is what can the rifle deliver consistently, time after time.

You'll find that 1 MOA or 1/2 MOA or ever 1/4 MOA rifles that can do that each and every time are rare birds indeed. It's highly unlikely to find those guns on dealer shelves unless with a fairly high price tag.

 

[Andrewsky]

ShunZu why don't you use a different scope mount?

The Springfield ones are known for their overall poor quality and wandering zero.

 

[arizcowboy]

My Springfield Match will shoot a 0.5 MOA 3 shot group with Federal Gold Match ammo using the factory iron match sights from a bench rest. Your mileage may vary.

 

[30Cal]

My Springfield Match will shoot a 0.5 MOA 3 shot group with Federal Gold Match ammo using the factory iron match sights from a bench rest. Your mileage may vary.

There's a huge difference between the crafted match models and the Loaded model assembled into a one-size-fits-all drop-in stock.

 

[Dobe]

I want an M1A badly.

 

[1200 meters]

I've got one and it shoots very well. I haven't measured my groups but they're close to 1.5 MOA. I used an M-21 for about 14 years and this M1A is not hat gun. I had shot targets out to 1250 meters and grouped there at 10.5 inches with the M-21. I must say I do not like the Springfield Scope and got rid of mine for a Leatherwood M-1200, love it, still getting it shot in. I do need to shoot more to maybe get back to the confidence level I once had. I think if I had the money I'd get a Springfield White Feather. Blitz

 

[pyrolater]

You may shoot much better groups occasionally, but you can pretty much count on 2 MOA any time, in almost any conditions.

If you consider that the US Army specification for acceptance was 10 rounds into 5.5 inches at 100 yards with ball ammo, that's not too bad.
The best M1As I've shot would reliably shoot just under 1 MOA. They'd have groups that were much smaller, but 1 MOA was repeatable time and time again with good ammo.

By contrast, it is not hard to build an AR that will routinely shoot 1/2 MOA, and some will routinely shoot even better. jpwilly is dead on. M1A are basically non-existent in service rifle matches. They can't keep up with the ARs.

If I could get Spring Field to guarantee max of 2 moa I think I would jump at one. 3 moa leaves way to much room for slop from the manufacturer.

I have an AR that shoots great and also get the benefit of a ton of after market parts and bolt on uppers of different calibers.

I think the ARs shoot better and are a better deal.

With that said I still would like to have a M1A if it would shoot half way decent. I just hate to buy one and have 3 moa and be stuck with that.

I would like to shoot the M1A in high power for fun in some local matches but I would use my AR for the matches that count.

I guess I'll have to decide if I want to take a chance on getting an expensive ornament .

 

[chauncey]

my M1A loaded shoots 1" groups at 100 yds with M118's, 1.5-2" groups with custom commercial loads, 2-3" groups with garden variety commercial rounds, and 2-4" groups with military surplus.

it feeds almost anything, reliably.

the more you spend on ammo, the better it will shoot. that, and how my eyes are that day, seem to be the biggest factors affecting the accuracy of my M1A.

btw, I clean religiously as well.

 

[H2O MAN]

pyrolater
I still would like to have a M1A if it would shoot half way decent. I just hate to buy one and have 3 moa and be stuck with that.

3 moa is slightly better than rack grade USGI... you would not have to be stuck with that, there
are a few qualified M14 gun smiths that can tighten up the groups on just about any M14 type rifle.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I guess I'll have to decide if I want to take a chance on getting an expensive ornament .

Well just buy the right one. The "Loaded" model, though it has lots of good marketing speak, is not a "match grade" rifle. Just using "national match" components is not good enough.

The Super Match is a sub-MOA rifle, and priced accordingly.

Price is a big reason the AR is so popular, just as much as any accuracy advantage. M14s cost lots of money plain and simple.

 

[pyrolater]

3 moa is slightly better than rack grade USGI... you would not have to be stuck with that, there
are a few qualified M14 gun smiths that can tighten up the groups on just about any M14 type rifle.

Thats the "problem" Money. With an AR I can rebarrel it and work on it my self. I don't need a smith to make it shoot.

the last thing I want to do is buy a new gun and take it straight over to a gun smith.

I guess I'll just have to save up and get an M1A and get an AR10 to go with my AR15.

 

[H2O MAN]

pyrolater I guess I'll just have to save up and get an M1A

Consider gathering parts and having one built to meet/exceed your needs.
I recently had a matched pair of M14SE CRAZY HORSE® LITE SDM rifles built on a budget.
I got much more rifle for my money this way... Click HERE for details and ideas.

 

[ShunZu]

ShunZu why don't you use a different scope mount?

I only used the mount for a short time. I use the factory N.M. ghost ring 99% of the time.

And y'all are absolutely right about that scope mount wandering around. But again, she sure looks pretty in the safe.

I have to admit that I have to chuckle when I see the SA ads in the gun mags with the guy crawling through mud with an M1A with the text above him reading "Any foe at any range". Yeah, right.

Cynic mode: <off>

 

[Slamfire]

By contrast, it is not hard to build an AR that will routinely shoot 1/2 MOA, and some will routinely shoot even better. jpwilly is dead on. M1A are basically non-existent in service rifle matches. They can't keep up with the ARs.

All True and partially unfair.

As someone who got their last leg and their Distinguished with a M1a, well I have a lot of fond memories of the "stick".

I have shot non matched out M1a's, and 2 MOA would be fine with one of them.

However, to get the maximum accuracy from a M1a, it has to be totally matched out. Glassbedded, gas cylinder unitized, flash suppressor reamed, and there are probably some other modifications that have to be made. This is still done by a very few guys, and it costs mucho dinero.

A totally matched out M1a is capable of sub MOA groups, which is pretty darn good. And regardless of what you read on the web, it is very hard to shoot sub MOA off the ground, in a sling, with iron sights, in a match.

The Mouse gun has been built into a reliable and accurate match rifle. Because of the lesser recoil it is far easier to shoot. This is very important as you pick up points, and X’s in the rapid fire stages. At 600 yards the M1a with a 175 might have a slight ballistic advantage over the 80 grain .223 (always debatable), but what ever points you might think you will get long range with the big bullet, you will actually earn less than the ones you lost on the short range.

It is true, the average NM AR will shoot inside the average match M1a, but not by much. And there are few shooters around who can actually demonstrate this on paper. There are about a million more who think they can.

I was there when the Marine Corp made the change from M14 to NM AR. So I asked the guys, “how are you doing”?. The answer was "same offhand, better in the rapids, and worse at long range". But that better in the rapids made all the difference.

I have attached my highest X count sitting group target with a M1a. (100-8X) Also attached a 100 yard reduced course target standing. Shot recently. Not the first 99, but never have got that 100. I have cleaned the 500 yard target, never cleaned the 600 with a M1a, but by the time you get in the pits usually your target has been pasted over, such is life. The only targets I get to keep are the reduced course ones, and the photo of this 200 yard sitting.

 

[Dobe]

Excellent shooting my friend. You should be proud.

 

[ALS]

There are some good M1A smiths out there that can tighten up your groups for a few bucks. A well made M1A set up right with a medium to heavy factory barrel should be able to shoot 1.0 to 1.5 MOA with Match Ammunition.

 

[glockman19]

My SA M1A loaded Carbon Synthetic shoots a 2" MOA or better with NATO spec 147 & 150 grain Winchester & Remington ammo. By this I mean I can shoot 10-20 rounds all within a 2" circle at 100 yards.

The reason I went with the Loaded and would recomend it is because it has the National Match Barrel, Sights & Trigger. Next best thing would be to bed the stock.

I have a Bushnell 4200 6x24x40 scope on it with a harris bipod and can accurately hold groups to 6" or less @ 600 yards.

The only rifle I shoot with greater accuracy to onger targets is a Remington 700CDL in .30-06.

Get a SA M1A Loaded. It's woth every penny

 

[30Cal]

I only used the mount for a short time. I use the factory N.M. ghost ring 99% of the time.

That may be the other part of your accuracy problem. The NM should have a nice tight aperature (0.0595 or 0.052") instead of a ghost ring.

 

[30Cal]

I was there when the Marine Corp made the change from M14 to NM AR. So I asked the guys, “how are you doing”?. The answer was "same offhand, better in the rapids, and worse at long range". But that better in the rapids made all the difference.

I'd agree with that. One thing to keep in mind is that the M14 eats and spits out civilians during the rapids (who generally don't get the coaching or trigger time like the big teams do). To regularly shoot a decent rapid score (98 or better) with the big gun takes a carefully refined, bomb-proof position.

In contrast, you can get away with murder shooting rapids with the AR and not drop a single point.

 

[ttinlv]

I'm sorry, I'm a noob and couldn't resist........

Wouldn't the highest probablity of any accuracy be if the M1A's breach was loaded? Otherwise pulling the trigger with the breach empty would result an MOA of infinite.