ACLU files lawsuit against Patriot Act

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Mark Tyson

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ACLU files lawsuit against Patriot Act

From Kevin Bohn
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, July 30, 2003 Posted: 6:17 PM EDT (2217 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The American Civil Liberties Union Wednesday filed the first lawsuit against the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law passed after the attacks of September 11, 2001.

The lawsuit claims one section of the law authorizing searches of records, including those of businesses, libraries and bookstores, is unconstitutional.

"This lawsuit challenges the constitutionality of Section 215 of the USA Patriot Act, which vastly expands the power of the Federal Bureau of Investigation to obtain records and other 'tangible things' of people not suspected of criminal activity," the lawsuit states.

The ACLU filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Michigan on behalf of six mostly Arab and Muslim-American groups.

The groups claim the provisions of the law allowing the searches violates the Constitution's First, Fourth and Fifth amendments.

They include the Muslim Community Association of Ann Arbor, Arab Community Center for Economic and Social Services and the Islamic Center of Portland, Masjed As-Saber.

Without directly commenting on the suit, Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock defended the act in a written statement, saying it was "a long overdue measure to close gaping holes" in the government's anti-terrorism efforts.

She described Section 215 as having "a narrow scope that scrupulously respects First Amendment rights, requires a court order to obtain any business records, and is subject to congressional reporting and oversight on a regular basis."

Justice Department officials say the section can be used only in a narrow set of circumstances, including to obtain foreign intelligence information about people who are neither American citizens nor lawful permanent residents, and to defend the United States against foreign spies or international terrorists.

"Section 215 cannot be used to investigate garden-variety crimes, or even domestic terrorism," Comstock said in her statement.

Those bringing the lawsuit contend it is too easy to get approval for a search under Section 215.

"To obtain a Section 215 order, the FBI need only assert that the records or personal belongings are 'sought for' an ongoing foreign intelligence, counterintelligence, or international terrorism investigation," the lawsuit says.

"The FBI is not required to show probable cause -- or any reason -- to believe that the target of the order is a criminal suspect or foreign agent."

Previously, such broad powers were permitted only in investigations of suspected agents of foreign powers. Section 215 expanded the type of information that can be subpoenaed and broadened the scope to add probes into al Qaeda and other terrorism suspects.

Another controversial element of the Patriot Act involves what are called "sneak and peek" searches of homes and other locations in which the owners are informed only after the search has been conducted.

Last week, the House of Representatives voted to bar the Justice Department from executing such searches under the act.

In a letter last week to House Speaker Rep. Dennis Hastert, R-Illinois, the department said the idea of delaying notification of such searches is "to prevent tipping off terrorists in the war on terror" and is a "long-existing, crime-fighting tool."

In February, the ACLU and a coalition of other civil liberties groups asked the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn new, more lenient standards for wiretaps in foreign intelligence investigations.

Before the Patriot Act, foreign intelligence had to be a "primary" purpose of the investigation. Now, foreign intelligence has to be a "significant" purpose. The court overseeing the issuance of wiretaps had ruled against that interpretation last year, saying it was too broad.
 
The nerve of those darn liberals. We have to give up some rights if we want to catch those dirty terrorist foreigners. If you're innocent, why be worried?

Four legs good, two legs better.
 
Good for the ACLU. The Patriot Act is riddled with Constitutional violations.
 
I have no love for the ACLU as they don't believe the 2A guarantees individuals the right to bear arms. Just 'cause they defended a Nazi or two doesn't mean they aren't stupid liberals!
 
I agree with their position. The Patriot Act is evil disguised as good.

It is getting really, really hard to argue with the Endtimers these days.
 
the ACLU may not pick all the fights, nor the best of fights, but it is awful rare that they pick the wrong fight.

on 2A, they have a wrong position, yes, but they will never argua a case either for or against it. their policy is to avoid it. it's good for their own survival, so more power to them. there are similar groups that include protecting 2A rights, and probably we should send our money to them.

but all in all, we should give credit where credit is due. or at least, I will.

good job, ACLU.


( ... let the flames begin )
 
The nerve of those darn liberals. We have to give up some rights if we want to catch those dirty terrorist foreigners. If you're innocent, why be worried?

I'm assuming you said that in jest, hence the Orwell reference?

If so :cool:

If not :barf:

Stinger
 
I’m glad the ACLU is fighting the USA PATRIOT Act. However, if the ACLU can just file suit over unconstitutional legislation, why can’t the NRA do the same thing for the “assault-weapons†ban or the myriad of other unconstitutional gun-control “laws�

~G. Fink :confused:
 
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The fact that the ACLU is against the Patriot Act definetly increases the credibility of the Partriot ACt.
 
letter to editor, Pgh. P-G, re ACLU suit

Editor:

The article in question headlined "ACLU joins legal challenge to key part of Patriot Act", reprinted from The Washington Post, contains some rather interesting comments.

The 5th paragraph provides some of the above mentioned, via the offerings of DOJ spokeswoman Barbara Comstock who comes to the defense of Section 215, not mentioned by it's number, the "defendant" or "offending party" in the above mentioned "legal challenge".She claims that the section has "a narrow scope....", later on mentioning a requirement for "congressional reporting and oversight on a regular basis".

Unfortunately, the record of The Congress, respecting the carrying out of it's oversight responsibilities regarding agencies it funds and legislation that it enacts is less than encouraging. One might go so far as to observe that the record of The Congress is terrible in this regard.

Later on in the article, mention is made of some "federal lawmakers" expressing concern or objections regarding at least some parts of the Patriot Act that they so hurriedly enacted, which leaves the writer wondering as to the following. Even at this late date, how many of our elected representatives, the ones who voted for this U.S.A. Patriot Act have ever gotten around to actually reading the thing?
 
I wonder?

Check this out:


http://www.nazis.testimony.co.uk/62.htm


Besides being against the 2nd Amendment, isn't the ACLU against Christians & religion too? I 've seen lots of stuff about the ACLU sueing for the removing of "the Ten Commandments" and such from courts and public buildings.
And as mentioned, they do defend a NAZI once in a while?
So, I wonder if the linked document is being used as a guide?
:D
 
Well, all those of you who are against the Patriot Act should be with the ACLU on this one. Doesn't mean you have become a liberal, just means you pick your fights on the basis of the issue.

Just a question, you say the ACLU defends Nazi's? Do they do it in order to defend the right to a fair trial? If so, it is admirable that they risk so much themselves (credibilty, possibly even their own lives etc) to defend what I believe is a constitutional right.
 
st.johns,

i think he is more suggesting that the ACLU's opposition to the link between religion and the state is akin to, if not the same as, the anti-religious policies of the NSDAP.

rest,

the ACLU is correct to file the motion and all of you should support it, and question why the NRA, which has more money and more clout, has not performed in a similar fashion.
 
I just find it unusual that something, so great, so help the masses, like the ACLU which is against the Patriot Act that goes against the Constitution, is against the 2nd Amendment (rights to have weapons).

They seem to pick the rights that THEY think we should have.

And I feel that they are anti-religion, especially against the basic Christain principles that this country was founded on.

In part, it says:

"But never again must an influence on leadership of the people be yielded to the churches. This (influence) must be broken completely and finally.
Only the Reich government and by it's direction the part, its components and attached units have a right to leadership of the people. Just as the deleterious influences of astrologers, seers and other fakers are eliminated and suppressed by the state, so must the possibility of CHURCH INFLUENCES also be totally removed."

sig//M. Bormann
Reichsleiter

I suggest that the complete document be read.

Sort of like what the NAZI were doing in Germany before the "final solution".

Sorry if anyone is upset (not really) and I'll not do it again (another lie).:D
 
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Ahh, the old "The eneny of my enemy is my friend" argument is alive an well on a forum infested with self-professed "libertarians." I read lots of gorilla dust about how the PA violates our consitutional rights yet I see precious little documented evidence, just assertions.

I'd like to think the ACLU suddenly decided to become a protector of constitutional rights. I may be dumb but I ain't stupid. I will not invest trust in an organization that is so selective in its outrage.

Just after Ashecroft became AG but before 9-11 the ACLU made an announcement that it was earmarking $6 million for a campaign to discredit Ashecroft. Is the lawsuit against the PA just a smokescreen to allow the ACLU to get around to knifing Ashecroft? Can't tell. Motives are too mixed up.
 
Moparmike,

The Second Amendment Wars changes fronts from time to time. Earlier on the battle was over whether or not there was a second amendment. Then there was the fight over whether or not it should be considered valid. That particular argument parallelled the validity of the third amendment. That being historical situations changed and there is no longer a need to worry about quartering troops in houses. Therefore you can say there is no need for the second amendment.

Thankfully the battle front is now changed to acceptance (for the time being) of the legitimacy of the second amendment but there are questions as to what it really means. So now the fight is over the interpretation of the term "people." Two interpretations emerge. First is the individual interpretation which says people refers to individuals. . . .just like the terms refers to individuals in the first, third and fourth amendments.

Second, the collectivist interpretation says "people" refers to the collective people meaning the states have right to keep and bear arms and that the individual has no such right. It is ok for individual states to have national guard units but it is not ok for individuals to possess arms. Virtually the entire anti-2 establishment has adopted the collectivist view. It does two things: First is it removes political baggage of opposing RKBA in a political environment where such opposition is political suicide. Second, it allows siad establishment to continue its opposition to armed citizens as well as the entire concept of self-defense.

I too have heard the ACLU has signed off on the second amendment but I'll bet a steak dinner is not a individual interpretation.
 
Men being what they are, I don't trust the Patriot Act. Liberals, being
what they are, I sure as hell don't trust the ACLU.

I'd still like to know, though, what we are supposed to do to afford this
country internal security. No Patriot Act? Fine. At least the PA
operates under the color of law and professes to honor basic civil
liberties. If we start experiencing terrorist acts that are linked
to radical Islamic groups in this country, whether its members are
here legally or illegally, it is frankly going to be very difficult for
Moslems to retain residency in this country. That would be a very
unfortunate eventuality, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
Good for the ACLU. I don't agree with them not supporting the 2nd Amendment, but other than that they are a good organization.
 
This sounds like a better thing for them to spend their money on than trying to get all the mental institutions closed, pornographers paid grants by the NEA and religious speech banned in public. Even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. :rolleyes:
 
as far as religion the ACLU is just fighting for the seperation of church and state. I think some of the battles are silly, but the ACLU has not done anything wrong that I am aware of concerning religion.

How many pages of laws were passed after 9/11? The patriot act was written a long time ago, and waiting under a rock to emerge. People have agendas, this was not written as a response to anything, it was pulled out and terrorism was the excuse.

I do not think we will see any major abuses until after the sunset is gone, it would be dumb for them to not lay low and show how it wont be abused right now.

I cut a few irrelivant parts out to make it shorter.
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
 
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