ACLU's updated stance on 2nd amendment rights

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American Criminal Liberties Union, American
Communist Liberties Union, take your pick.

Earth to ACLU: the Constitution means what the Supreme Court says it means.
 
OK....


I rarely comment on the activities of the ACLU. I don't particularly like some of the stances they take, but I do get it-- based directly on thier own comments in interviews.

I have the ability to disagree with someone or an organization, but still respect that they have conviction of thier beliefs and integrity. I can actually despise a group or person based upon thier views, and still respect their convictions-- as long as they show integrity.


Now, I say the above as a prelude for this:


From an interview that I saw regarding the ACLU NAMBLA case, they explained that they did not support or assert the notion that a person's civil rights were being infringed upon by laws preventing them from having sex with underage boys. They explained that they were taking the case because they felt that legal precedent was lacking and it would be beneficial to establish a more codified position.

OK. So what they are telling me is that SC interpretation is needed and that they respect the rulings of the SC. In fact, much of the activities of the ACLU has been bringing cases in order to establish legal precedent through cases. At its foundation, they are deferring to the rulings of the legal system as being the final arbitrator of precedent and the rule of law.


And then we get this....


The ACLU interprets the Second Amendment as a collective right. Therefore, we disagree with the Supreme Court’s decision in D.C. v. Heller. While the decision is a significant and historic reinterpretation of the right to keep and bear arms, the decision leaves many important questions unanswered that will have to be resolved in future litigation, including what regulations are permissible, and which weapons are embraced by the Second Amendment right that the Court has now recognized.


They have literally stated that they disagree with the SC and that they are therefore-- by dissenting-- suggested a fallibility of the very entity which they have touted and relied upon as the final arbitrator of codified rights.


What they are saying is that the SC is the final word-- unless it goes against our viewpoint.


By the statement I have quoted, the ACLU has now identified itself as an organization who is more interested in social engineering rather than codification of rights.

Many defend the ACLU for not having a position on the 2A as stating that they do not have to defend ALL of the BOR. I reject this notion. If they are to have as thier mission statement that they defend Civil Rights, they do not have the luxury of picking and choosing. They should amend thier mission if that is the case.


As it is, I see the ACLU as having lost ALL integrity on this issue. Along with it goes the very last vestige of respect that I may have held for the organization.

I suppose it is liberating for me.



-- John
 
Lets see if my comments on how the ACLU's stance is in direct violation of both their mission and goals as well as being odiously racist in nature are permitted.

# everallm Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
July 2nd, 2008 at 7:21 am

The ACLU’s mission statement is and I quote..

===============================================

The American system of government is founded on two counterbalancing principles: that the majority of the people governs, through democratically elected representatives; and that the power even of a democratic majority must be limited, to ensure individual rights.

Majority power is limited by the Constitution’s Bill of Rights, which consists of the original ten amendments ratified in 1791, plus the three post-Civil War amendments (the 13th, 14th and 15th) and the 19th Amendment (women’s suffrage), adopted in 1920.

The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:

It is therefore ACLU’s avowed intent to support the Bill of Rights in it’s entirety and not as a pick ‘n mix buffet.

The BoR addresses the inalienable and inherent rights of individuals and the Second Amendment remains one of them.

===============================================

Consider the historically shameful and odious race and gender based basis of firearms controls.

Firearms law were, in the main, created to disarm and oppress people of colour and the economically disadvantaged.

I find it incomprehensible that the ACLU not only does not support the 2nd Amendment
but interprets the constitution in such a racist manner.
 
Bottom line for me?

The "collective right" theory was a fabrication from the outset, and anyone with any intellectual honesty knows it. Neither dissent even claimed that the right is a "collective right" or that there's really such thing as a "collective right".

It's a lie, not an interpretation. And anyone who really knows about the Constitution, as an ACLU attorney should, knows it's a lie.

Furthermore, if they disagree with a SCOTUS ruling, their disagreement ought to be because it doesn't support individual rights, or doesn't support them enough. It doesn't seem that they're really a "civil liberties" organization at all.

At best, they're a group of trial lawyers looking for ways to make money over the long term by working for precedents that provide more opportunities for lawyers.

At worst, they're what right-wing pundits have long said: they're an organization that is working actively to damage America and destroy our system.

What they're not, is an organization that supports individual liberty.
 
It is a joke. I commented on the blog and think everyone who has an opinion should. I don't like the organization at all because they are selective in their views. Regardless we should flood their comments with pro 2nd views.
 
I really have no problem with the notion that they're not obligated to agree with the Supreme court when it's wrong: Isn't that the position they take, quite correctly, when it comes to the Supreme court's approval of campaign censorship legislation?

The problem here is that they're wrong about the Supreme court being wrong, in this instance.

And I bet they know it, too.
 
Call me nieve, but I just can't fathom how so many Americans can be as ignorant, or just single minded, as to think that abolishing a constitutional right is acceptable.


That's your problem.


Believe it buddy.



Sadly, were talking about a culture that knows who won American Idol, but not the vice president.
 
On the ACLU blog

They are getting slapped around like crazy. I read quite a bit of it and there wasn't one favorable opinion. It seems the lefties running the ACLU are showing their true stripes....


Black and white stripes. and the smell.... oh, lordy, it does smell...
 
Yeah, so far it's a long list (including me) saying, "Say goodbye to our money." I realize it's only 90 or so people thus far, so in real terms it's a small amount of money. But it's worth commenting just to keep saying to them: "You are wrong, and we're taking away your cookies."
 
A blog entry isn't exactly an official policy statement.

Here's the link to the ACLU official policy on "gun control". They have not changed their adoption of the collective right interpretation since the SCOTUS Heller decision.

http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14523res20020304.html

BACKGROUND
The ACLU has often been criticized for "ignoring the Second Amendment" and refusing to fight for the individual's right to own a gun or other weapons. This issue, however, has not been ignored by the ACLU. The national board has in fact debated and discussed the civil liberties aspects of the Second Amendment many times.

We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration.

IN BRIEF
The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns.

Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms.

The question therefore is not whether to restrict arms ownership, but how much to restrict it. If that is a question left open by the Constitution, then it is a question for Congress to decide.

ACLU POLICY
"The ACLU agrees with the Supreme Court's long-standing interpretation of the Second Amendment [as set forth in the 1939 case, U.S. v. Miller] that the individual's right to bear arms applies only to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia. Except for lawful police and military purposes, the possession of weapons by individuals is not constitutionally protected. Therefore, there is no constitutional impediment to the regulation of firearms." — Policy #47
 
A blog entry isn't exactly an official policy statement.

I disagree. It was presented by an ACLU staffer in a ACLU controlled blog post directly linked from the ACLU homepage.

Don't get me wrong - I'm actually an ACLU member and supporter, and feel they do much more good than harm. That said, I also feel strongly that they need to have their feet held to the fire over this position.
 
The ACLU is about as interested in protecting civil liberties as the American Hunters and Shooters Association is in protecting firearms rights. It's just a noble sounding name for a subversive anti-American, anti-Freedom organization. It's one thing to not have a position. Another thing entirely to actively and admittedly work against what the Supreme Court has deemed the Constitution means.
 
Heavy Duty,

I don't think a post from some staffer makes that their official position. They actually have an official policy that needs to change. Until they change their official policy from a collective right interpretation to an individual right interpretation they need to be pressured to do that and they need to be pressed hard.

I've been a member of the ACLU and supported them for a long time. I'm withdrawing all support and actively criticizing their position until they change the official policy to reflect the fact that the SCOTUS has ruled the 2nd is an individual right guaranteed to the citizens of this country and not the states.
 
hso, point taken - I agree there is a chance the blog post was made by someone not authorized to speak on policy matters. I sincerely hope ACLU decides to recognize Heller and takes, at a minimum, a neutral stance on the Second.
 
No offense, but when I think of the ACLU, I think of Reverend Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. I think one word:


Irrelevant



.
 
Hopefully one of two things will happen:

1. The ACLU will get a clue and change their position.

2. People who support the ACLU in the hope that it is an organization for the strengthening of individual civil rights will find a different organization to support. Perhaps CATO?

I think #2 is already happening in scale. An organization acting under the guise of promoting all individual civil rights isn't able to get by going against such a critical right.
 
CATO will almost certainly benefit from ACLU's not coming out clearly and stating that their official policy is to consider the 2nd an individual right.

I know that they're going to get my money.
 
I can tell you where they "stand." Here are their hot buttons under the pop-up "Issues" on the main page. Hmmm.... Anything noticeably absent? :barf:
Criminal Justice
Death Penalty
Disability Rights
Drug Policy
Free Speech
HIV/AIDS
Human Rights
Immigrants' Rights
Lesbian & Gay Rights
National Security
Police Practices
Prisoners' Rights
Privacy & Technology
Racial Justice
Religion and Belief
Reproductive Freedom
Rights of the Poor
Safe and Free
StandUp/Youth
Voting Rights
Women's Rights
 
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