• You are using the old High Contrast theme. We have installed a new dark theme for you, called UI.X. This will work better with the new upgrade of our software. You can select it at the bottom of any page.

Add Germany to the list of countries where people are buying way more guns

Status
Not open for further replies.
O

old lady new shooter

Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2015
Messages
30,803
The gun store owner interviewed in this video says sales are up two to three times over the same period last year, distributors are sold out and orders are delayed for weeks or months. He says people are doing this because of the huge influx of migrants, despite some association attributing it to fear of wolves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipfP4oICu0U
 
Doesn't Germany have like the second to lowest rate of ownership besides England, though? So how large is this increase in real numbers? Also, I'm fairly sure that 'fear of wolves' is a polite-company feint for civil unrest much as 'zombies' are here in the US. I don't think Berlin is going all Detroit over there, just yet.

"Yeah, well lemme tell you about the old "an ant can carry a million times its own weight" bit. What's an ant weigh? Like nothing, right? What's a million times nothing? It's nothing!" :D

TCB
 
There are lots of guns in Germany. You just have to go through a lot more hoops to get them. Sad thing though is that self defense is not normally a justification unless there is a specific threat. Most common justification for ownership is hunters and sport shooters. Problem will be when they use one of these guns for self defense...it does nit often go well for the gun owner.
 
Last edited:
"A specific threat" is NOT a legally accepted reason to be allowed and to carry a gun in Germany.

Yes, you can have death threats made at you in public from a convicted violent criminal and still will very probably have your application for a buy & carry license denied.

You need to be at a "above average risk" ...and the risk must be a result of your job or social position.

That a violent husband had already tried to kill you does not count!!!
For this is not a result of your Job or your social position!!
Do not think I am joking on this!!

The person in the video is NOT talking about real guns but about "self protection stuff" you can legally buy in Germany:
Pepper spray and signal/ blanks/ tear gas guns and such.

The refugee wave does not have any influence on "real" guns in Germany, not even the slightest.



Carsten
 
Hi Carsten,

15 years total there. Graf, Wuerzburg, Hanau...

Had my Jagdschein and was a Sport Schuetze with WBK.

Great times but it had been 11 years.

Frohe Weinachten und ein guten rutsch wuensche ich sie.
 
40 years ago there were a fair number of handgun owners in my shooting club down in Neu Ulm. Sure there were the 50 meter single shot .22 crowd and the Olympic rapid fire .22 bunch, but also folks that did own "real guns" every thing from P1 (P38) to .44 Magnum SAA type "cowboy guns"

Semi auto rifles were few and thin on the ground though.

What surprised me though in a country that then had what I as a young Floridian thought of as draconian gun laws was the number of "Bahnhof" guns. Friends in the Polizi , both in the club and that I met through work spoke of the number of "Train Station" guns in the hands of folks with no gun or hunting papers. The nick name came from the guns changing hands in the bathrooms of train stations and supposedly this was a fairly active black market.

In Ulm there was a problem with "lunchbox guns". I saw two P-1 (P38) that were never numbered that Police friends insisted came out of Walther as parts in lunch pails.

I was once offered an unpapered functional C96 Mauser and no not a deco-waffen by a friend of a friend.

Deco Waffen were at the time merely dewated by having a bore caliber sized hole bored in the chamber of a fire arm and through my police friends I heard of such interesting confiscated things as an M-3A1 grease gun with, of all things, an octagonal barrel made from a BP hunting rifle's barrel.

There were also varieties of "Barn guns" floating about. These were the guns "farmers" had stored under the floor boards of their barns and could be about anything......on my second tour in the early '80s an experimental WWII 75 mm recoiless rifle was handed over to the Third Armored Division Museum and I examined it when it came in.

Back in the '70's there was a nasty event that literally had the villagers near the Pershing Missile Site I then worked at "up in arms." This resulted in an angry villager scene from an old horror movie ( or Mel Brook's "A riot is a terrible thing....") complete with pitch forks torches and axes and such AND at least one MP-40 and one PPSh-41, several K98 rifles with bayonet lugs intact and a number of pistols from teenie tiny up to a P-08 few if any were papered.

In the '70s BP revolvers were as unregulated as in the US, though the powder was controlled.....though fireworks abounded. According to Police friends again these BP revolvers occassionaly showed up either in crimes or the hands of folks whose castle was being invaded.

Flare pistols were also unregulared and I saw a home made insert with smooth barrel for 9x19mm in one at a police station and was told such of various calibers were not particularly uncommon.

Besides these "common folks" guns there were of course the various political groups like BaderMeinhof or Red Army Faction or various angry middle easterners that seemed to have no problem obtaining G3, FN FAL, HK93 and the ever popular AK series along with a sprinkling of such things as the SMGs of various Euro arms and Police groups.

Of course that was in the bad old Cold War and pre EU days and certainly the magic fairies of modernarity and Unification have made all those bad old guns disappear!

I think there may be a fair number of guns in Germany the officials can not account for.

I think a lot of German Common folks are starting to think jumping through hoops for a hunting rifle or shotgun or a "sport Pistol" are good ideas "just in case."

-kBob
 
I thought I read once that privately owned guns in Germany had to be stored under lock and key at a "safe place" away from the home, like at a range.....am I mistaken about that?
 
Well, Mexico has very strict gun laws and purchases must be approved by the Army and private guns must be registered with the Army (must have something to do with the Mexican history of revolution). A Mexican security consultant prepared a study showing that there were in private hands in Mexico:
3 million legally registered civilian firearms
12 million unregistered military firearms
40 million unregistered civilian firearms

I begin to suspect that gun banners are in the hire of the black marketeers. (Was Absinth ever unavailable in Europe after the 1910 ban?)
 
carsten1911 said:
The person in the video is NOT talking about real guns but about "self protection stuff" you can legally buy in Germany:
Pepper spray and signal/ blanks/ tear gas guns and such.
Click to expand...
Yes, there was also an article in the Süddeutsche Zeitung (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/boom-immer-mehr-menschen-kaufen-eine-waffe-1.2769959) that specifically mentioned "Pfeffersprays, Tierabwehrpistolen, Signalwaffen und Gaspistolen" -- the only one I recognized was the pepper spray, I thought a Gaspistole might be an airgun (?), but no idea what the other two are. Do you know what an "animal defense gun" or "signal weapon" is called here? If a Gaspistole is a tear gas gun, that's something I think is illegal in California, I know we can't have the pepper spray guns here, only the little cans.

The refugee wave does not have any influence on "real" guns in Germany, not even the slightest.
Click to expand...
I'll take your word for that, but the video and article both make clear that people there are taking seriously the idea of defending themselves, which to me was the interesting point.
 
Europe has had centuries of war, enough so that many migrated here to avoid conscription and fighting for regional rulers. It's really no surprise that because of that, the people - regardless of how imposing their gun laws are - keep exactly those guns that are outlawed, regardless. Even field pieces.

Contrast that to those posters in other threads who foresee all 330 million guns in America turned in thru threats of arrest, house to house search, or sold for a high priced bounty.

We've only had one internal war in two hundred years. Apparently we didn't learn from that. Europe has had wars frequently and repeatedly. They horde weapons back with impunity, regardless of their laws, hiding them in their barns and businesses.

There's a lesson there - it seems they believe in the inalienable right to keep arms more than some in the US.
 
You don't go down to the gun store in Germany and buy a gun and keep it around your home then use it in self defense. You certainly don't carry the thing around with you. Doesnt work like that. Lots of permitting, licensing, keeping it int he shooting clubs safe , ammo restrictions all that. The hunting restrictions are bad enough but to actually keep a gun in your home takes years. Then its not to be used like we use guns here. At the range only.

Gas pistols are tear or pepper gas pistols they have a tear gas capsule that consists of a primer and some pepper or tear gas in 8mm or 9mm and the guns are basically pot metal. Not the sort of thing you'd want to stand in front of but not terribly effective either.
 
Last May we saw numerous tiny free-standing structures in Franconian fields which look similar to American "deer stands" on steroids etc. Easily noticed them walking/jogging in 'private woods' (legal public access) close to a village near Harburg last May.
The landowner rode up to us on his bike and chatted.

Today I will ask a friend from the city of Essen whether Germans with private land have a special permit (Erlaubnis) to keep a rifle at home, to be used only on private land. Or whether they can shoot an animal from those stands.

Update: even though he grew up in downtown Essen Germany, he believes that landowners can keep a registered rifle in their homes.
 
Last edited:
Hello Ingnition Override,

Gun ownership and licences have NOTHING to do with land ownership.
The are several accepted legitimate reasons for owning guns for non-professional weapon-carriers, the three most common are:
-Sporting (target shooting...hunting ist not a sub-class of sport shooting!)
-collecting
-hunting

You can own half of Germany...if you do not fall into one of these three categories, with each "Membership" strictly regulated, you will not be able to buy a gun legally.

Your friend might want to take a closer look at the hoopla necessary for owning a gun/ several guns.

Best wishes
Carsten
 
Yes, there was also an article in the Süddeutsche Zeitung (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/bo...affe-1.2769959) that specifically mentioned "Pfeffersprays, Tierabwehrpistolen, Signalwaffen und Gaspistolen" -- the only one I recognized was the pepper spray, I thought a Gaspistole might be an airgun (?), but no idea what the other two are.
Click to expand...

- Pfefferspray - pepper spray, must be certified against animals, by law they shall be used against animals only
- Tierabwehrpistole - pepper spray that looks a bit like toy gun, shoots jet of pepper up to 7 meters far, againt to be used against animals only
71fRSinCw0L._SX522_.jpg
- Signalwaffe - pistol that makes bang but shoots no projectile, if you try loading live ammo the gun will explode https://youtu.be/xLL2P-divYU
- Gaspistole - pistol that looks real but shoots pepperspray cartridges. Extremely dangerous against attacker armed with knife/real gun as his response will most probably be very violent.

To be able to carry any of the above mentioned "guns" (because that is what is now being sold in Germany in higher numbers, forget a real firearm for self defense), you need to get a “kleiner Waffenschein” (small gun license).

As my German friend explained it to me:

It is a license necessary to carry blank-fire guns (Schreckschusswaffen), which can be used for recreational purposes (fireworks) or for self-defense. There’s a wide array of ammunition available, from simple blanks (Platzpatronen) to rounds loaded with pepper or tear gas (CS). Muzzle blast may also cause injuries from short distances.
You can apply for a kleiner Waffenschein at your local authorities. That can be your Ordnungsamt, Landratsamt, police station etc., depending on where you live. As long as you have a (relatively) clean criminal record, are 18 years old and don’t have any addictions, certain medical conditions or affiliations with the wrong kind of organization (NPD, 1% MC etc.), you’ll get one.
I would not recommend a Schreckschusswaffe for self-defense, though. A spray is both more effective and much easier to carry.
The only advantage of the Schreckschusswaffe might be the intimidation factor, but this could easily backfire. If an attacker thinks you have a real gun, he might resort to deadly force, and all you can do is make some noise or dispense small amounts of tear gas.
Click to expand...

There are countries like Czech Republic or Austria, where sales of FIREARMS are going up, but when you read about self-defense weapons sales surge in countries like Germany, think of a pepper spray.

If you think this is bad, then imagine there is multitude of countries in Europe where people are banned from carrying even that damn pepper spray for self defense.

Last but not least, do not put EU into the same basket as regards gun laws the same as immigration problem. As a general rule, if you take a look around EU countries welfare benefits amounts, you get also good idea about the proportion of immigration in the past year.
 
"We don't have to protect you and we won't LET you protect yourself." is pretty popular in statist governments.

It's the rule in New York City and Washington, D.C.,; it used to be in Chiraq.

Of course Obama and Merkel are upping the game by not only doing NOTHING to "protect" the public, but also:
  • bringing in tens of thousands of unscreened and UNSCREENABLE aliens from the world headquarters of jihadism.
  • concealing and obfuscating the nature of the threat, and even that a threat exists.
Obama et al are trying to put the people of the United States in the same position as the women in Cologne on New Year's Eve.
 
What's telling is that job and social status are more important than specific and credible threats when it comes to obtaining a gun.
 
Snejdarek said:
- Pfefferspray - pepper spray, must be certified against animals, by law they shall be used against animals only
- Tierabwehrpistole - pepper spray that looks a bit like toy gun, shoots jet of pepper up to 7 meters far, againt to be used against animals only
71fRSinCw0L._SX522_.jpg
- Signalwaffe - pistol that makes bang but shoots no projectile, if you try loading live ammo the gun will explode https://youtu.be/xLL2P-divYU
- Gaspistole - pistol that looks real but shoots pepperspray cartridges. Extremely dangerous against attacker armed with knife/real gun as his response will most probably be very violent.

To be able to carry any of the above mentioned "guns" (because that is what is now being sold in Germany in higher numbers, forget a real firearm for self defense), you need to get a “kleiner Waffenschein” (small gun license).

As my German friend explained it to me:



There are countries like Czech Republic or Austria, where sales of FIREARMS are going up, but when you read about self-defense weapons sales surge in countries like Germany, think of a pepper spray.

If you think this is bad, then imagine there is multitude of countries in Europe where people are banned from carrying even that damn pepper spray for self defense.

Last but not least, do not put EU into the same basket as regards gun laws the same as immigration problem. As a general rule, if you take a look around EU countries welfare benefits amounts, you get also good idea about the proportion of immigration in the past year.
Click to expand...

Actually, a "Signalwaffe" is a flare gun, the youtube Video you posted shows a "Schreckschusspistole". It is impossible to load live ammo in a "Schreckschusspistole" even though the caliber "9mm PAK" might suggest that, as the diameter of the chamber does not match the diameter of any live ammo cartridge.

Fortunately, in Austria we still have a specific legal (although not a constitutional) right to buy firearms for self defense, and firearm sales have gone up about 30% compared to usual levels. The rise in non-firearm weapons like pepper spray is 3-4x that much, as many people are insecure about getting a real gun but want something for protection.
 
The man in the video is clearly contributing the reason being the uncontrolled and unverified immigration problem. Sounds familiar...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Letters from Kids on Gun Control
Replies
11
Views
691
mortablunt
M
WVGunman
  • Locked
hickok45: interesting and informative, or more annoying than anything else?
2 3 4
Replies
76
Views
5K
Robert
Robert
B
  • Locked
U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people
Replies
3
Views
418
Larry Ashcraft
Larry Ashcraft
B
  • Locked
Interesting collection of videos
Replies
0
Views
417
basicblur
B
M
  • Locked
So many Texans want gun licenses, DPS adding staff to handle paperwork
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
LeonCarr
L
Back
Top