Adding a flash hider or a muzzelbreak to a SAIGA IZ-132 (7.62x39)

[GWARGHOUL]

Any ideas how one might add either?

Is it something that a skilled gunsmith needs to do?

What are the disadvantages to a muzzlebrake?


Thanks

 

[nalioth]

There are many options.

How much work do you want to do?

How much money do you want to spend?


TBH, there is no need for a muzzle brake in a semiauto rifle.

 

[GWARGHOUL]

Well, you know how comfortable I am with working on my SAIGA.. haha.

I'm going to start on the conversion sometime this coming week.

I would like to add a flash hider, for under $100.

 

[nalioth]

If you can do your own work, you can install a threaded front sight block and get a US-made copy of a Bulgarian RPK flash hider for under $100. .

 

[xr1200]

Flash suppresors are really only necessary if your actually using the rifle for combat or military use.

All the flash suppressors or muzzle breaks do is to limit the muzzle flash or climbing of the barrel.

If you want the best accuracy them leave the flash suppressor off, you get you best accuracy by having a perfect muzzle crown that allows the bullet to exit the barrel perfectly.

Muzzle breaks or flash suppressors can actually be detrimental to accuracy.

 

[WardenWolf]

A properly installed muzzlebrake can actually improve accuracy. That said, installing one on a Saiga is a royal pain, and needs a competent gunsmith. The original front sight block has a shroud that goes over the end of the barrel. This means that you have to replace the whole front sight assembly. The pins need to be pressed out, and the original front sight block pressed off. Then a new standard AK sight block needs to be installed and shimmed so it fits tightly. Then either the barrel needs to be threaded or, if you installed a sight block designed to take a muzzle brake, you can just screw the brake directly onto the block.

Yeah, I looked into this a lot. It's totally not worth the effort and expense. This has real potential to permanently mess up your gun, far more so than a simple Saiga conversion.

 

[nalioth]

That said, installing one on a Saiga is a royal pain, and needs a competent gunsmith. The original front sight block has a shroud that goes over the end of the barrel. This means that you have to replace the whole front sight assembly. The pins need to be pressed out, and the original front sight block pressed off. Then a new standard AK sight block needs to be installed and shimmed so it fits tightly. Then either the barrel needs to be threaded or, if you installed a sight block designed to take a muzzle brake, you can just screw the brake directly onto the block.

Yeah, I looked into this a lot. It's totally not worth the effort and expense. This has real potential to permanently mess up your gun, far more so than a simple Saiga conversion.

It's actually a lot easier than you think.

The FSBs aren't even pinned on the Saiga.

I know folks that have done the swap from neutered FSB to milspec (24mm threaded) with common garage tools and a 2x4.

 

[WardenWolf]

It depends on the Saiga, then, because mine obviously has pins. And according to all the information I've been able to locate, a lot of times, due to parts tolerance on both the barrel and FSB, you have to do some work to make it fit tightly. Also, some Saigas have a longer barrel head in front of the FSB than a normal AK, meaning that even if you do the swap, brakes and such generally often won't fit properly. Not considering the fact that if they misalign it, they'll get bullet strikes, etc.

 

[Johnny Guest]

At your own risk - -

GWARGHOUL - -
Clealy, there is a difference of opinion on the proper answer to your question. I have no reason to think that any of the three members posting replies would intentionally mislead you.

To recap their contributions - -
xr1200 and nalioth seem convinced that such an installation has a good chance of making your rifle less accurate. WardenWolf is equally convinced that a properly installed muzzlebrake can actually improve accuracy.

For my part, I have little experience with Saigas, and have NEVER added a muzzle device to one. This might be a good place to mention that no one has ever called any Saiga a benchrest match rifle, or a gilt edge varmint slayer, so this talk of accuracy is probably moot.

One thing seems clear to me, though - - You would probably do well to consult a GOOD gunsmith, one with significant experience in performing this particular task. The job may appear simple, but is likely far more complicated than mounting a scope sight on a popular deer rifle or putting a recoil pad on a scattergun. You probably don't need to be told that this kind of work by a competent 'smith will probably run WELL north of your proposed under-$100 budget. If you are determined to make it a do-it-yourself project, please understand that it may not turn out well. If your aim is merely to make your arm "look good," then there is little to be lost.

Best of luck to you
Johnny

 

[WardenWolf]

Here's one little little interesting thing about AK's: when you fire them, the barrel actually bows due to the reciprocating mass of the gas system. A muzzle brake can provide straight-line force which will reduce this bowing. Granted, on a 16-inch barrel, the bullet is already clear before the bowing starts. However, given that bowing, over a very long period of time, can reduce the rigidity of the barrel and degrade overall accuracy, reducing it is always a good thing.

 

[xr1200]

As for accuracy flash suppressors do nothing for it, the only exception to the rule would be the brownings boss system, but is adjusts the harmonics of barrel by dialing in the system.

??? Do you see anyone using flash suppressors on competion long range bolt action rifles ?

If they increased accuracy you would see them used in almost every form of competition.

On military national match high power rifles , the flash suppressors are reemed out to minimize their effect on the bullet exiting the barrel.

 

[WardenWolf]

xr1200, bolt rifle purists really don't like muzzle brakes or other muzzle devices primarily because they feel it looks "ugly". It's the same for shotgunners and polychokes. These devices decrease the resell value of the firearm simply because they're not liked. As for flash suppressors being reamed out, that's a flash suppressor, not a pure brake, and being reamed out has little to no effect on its braking properties.

 

[xr1200]

I'm talking about accuracy with or with out a muzzle break or flash suppressor, if they contributed to accuracy significantly you would see them on every rifle.

The best thing you can put at the end of barrel in nothing, the only thing you need is a good target or hunting style crown, so nothing effects the bullet upon exiting the barrel.

If you new anything about flash suppressors, then you would know that they have a taper bore on them in order to trap the gases and muzzle flash, with a tight gap between the suppressor and bullet diameter.

On military match rifles like a m14, a true national match suppressor will be bored out so it has little or no effect on the bullet, also with the bored out flash suppressor, muzzle flash will increase slightly, due to increased gap betwen the suppressor bore and bullet diameter.

Look at all the long range ar15 rifles in most top of the line ar15 suppliers, and you will see that most of them have no flash suppressors or muzzle breaks of any kind.

The only time you see muzzle breaks used is usually on big bore magnum long rage pistol or rifle like a 338 lapula or 50 bmg.