As I am just getting started in making some knives, I don't want to use expensive tool grade steel until I feel I know what I am doing. Right now (a different thread) I am working on making some blades with cast off 10" circular saw blades. I was wondering what other sources of steel there are out there that are normally discarded that could be used for a first try. Example, lawn mower blades. After several years of sharpening, I normally discard them and buy a new one. Could these be used in any way or is the steel in them too inferior even for practice? What other sources of steel might be used?
"Adequate" steel for experimentation in knife making
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Valkman
Member
I buy 18" pieces of O1 tool steel for under $10 in 1/8" x 1" and just over $12 for 3/16" x 1 1/4". It's not expensive!
The problem with using unknown steels is that there's no way to know how to properly heat treat them, and proper heat treating is just as important as which steel to use.
You want precision ground steel, I get it from www.toolanddie.com
If this link will work it's the same page I order from:
http://www.toolanddie.com/~smgr2/Me...=T&Product_Code=PM-O1ON18&Category_Code=PMGFS
The problem with using unknown steels is that there's no way to know how to properly heat treat them, and proper heat treating is just as important as which steel to use.
You want precision ground steel, I get it from www.toolanddie.com
If this link will work it's the same page I order from:
http://www.toolanddie.com/~smgr2/Me...=T&Product_Code=PM-O1ON18&Category_Code=PMGFS
O-1 is probably the most forgiving steel
and can be picked up pretty cheap. Most sawblade steel is probably L-6 and makes a good blade. Coil springs from japanese cars are cheap and I've heard they are 5160 and easy to forge if you want to go that route.
and can be picked up pretty cheap. Most sawblade steel is probably L-6 and makes a good blade. Coil springs from japanese cars are cheap and I've heard they are 5160 and easy to forge if you want to go that route.
I also buy steel from toolandie.com They beat the snot out of everybody on pricing and the service is excellent. Really above and beyond. Had a mix up on an order once, that could have been considered my fault as much as theirs and they fixed me up very well.
I'd really recommend you go ahead and order some O1. The heat treat is simple, the steel is clean, flat, annealed, and ready to work with. The price really isn't much more than hot rolled welding steel from the hardware store. Scrounging for steel can be fun, I've talked to a lot of guys who use old leaf springs, and all sorts of stuff. Thats more suited to forging than stock removal though due to the varying size and shape of the peices you find.
The biggest thing about using quality steel when you get started is learning to heat treat. If you work with new steel, you can use the same steel every time and work up a consistent heat treating method, rather than having to experiment with every peice and hope that its a usable steel.
If you do decide to keep recycling (not a thing in the world wrong with it, just can be more frustrating), one thing you should learn to do is a spark test on a grinder. This will help determine how much carbon is in the steel.
Basically you just touch the peice to a grinder and study the trail of sparks produced. A high carbon content will give you a forked spark that splits into smaller peices and doesn't travel very far. Some people describe it as "a big hairy spark". Low carbon will produce a spark that stays in one peice and travels a lot farther.
If you can get a peice of cast iron and do a spark test on it, you should really be able to see what a high carbon spark looks like. Cast iron has 2% or more carbon and sparks like crazy. Knife steels generally fall between .5% on the low end and 1% on the high end. If it shows a nice spark on the grinder, it should make a decent knife.
Some good stuff to look for are springs. If you've got a place in town that makes leaf springs, go see if you can look through their scrap bin. Most likely they will be using 5160 or 6150, both will make a good knife. Alot of bearings are made out of 52100 also, but they're more suited to forging due to their shape.
I'd really recommend you go ahead and order some O1. The heat treat is simple, the steel is clean, flat, annealed, and ready to work with. The price really isn't much more than hot rolled welding steel from the hardware store. Scrounging for steel can be fun, I've talked to a lot of guys who use old leaf springs, and all sorts of stuff. Thats more suited to forging than stock removal though due to the varying size and shape of the peices you find.
The biggest thing about using quality steel when you get started is learning to heat treat. If you work with new steel, you can use the same steel every time and work up a consistent heat treating method, rather than having to experiment with every peice and hope that its a usable steel.
If you do decide to keep recycling (not a thing in the world wrong with it, just can be more frustrating), one thing you should learn to do is a spark test on a grinder. This will help determine how much carbon is in the steel.
Basically you just touch the peice to a grinder and study the trail of sparks produced. A high carbon content will give you a forked spark that splits into smaller peices and doesn't travel very far. Some people describe it as "a big hairy spark". Low carbon will produce a spark that stays in one peice and travels a lot farther.
If you can get a peice of cast iron and do a spark test on it, you should really be able to see what a high carbon spark looks like. Cast iron has 2% or more carbon and sparks like crazy. Knife steels generally fall between .5% on the low end and 1% on the high end. If it shows a nice spark on the grinder, it should make a decent knife.
Some good stuff to look for are springs. If you've got a place in town that makes leaf springs, go see if you can look through their scrap bin. Most likely they will be using 5160 or 6150, both will make a good knife. Alot of bearings are made out of 52100 also, but they're more suited to forging due to their shape.
Brian Williams
Moderator Emeritus
Go to a automobile spring shop and get some of their removed springs. or go to a junk yard adn get some from the scrap heap. Truck springs are great.
from reading your other post i assume you dont have a forge yet..so starting with bar stock would be the easiest method for you. i agree that O1 is a very good steel (forgiving and performs great) and toolanddie.com is the place to get it. great prices...they did mess up my order once and it took like a month to get it but everyone makes mistakes.
if you are looking for a cheaper steel try 1080...its inexpensive but it is less forgiving during heat treating. if worked properly it makes a good knife.
www.admiralsteel.com carries it
if you are looking for a cheaper steel try 1080...its inexpensive but it is less forgiving during heat treating. if worked properly it makes a good knife.
www.admiralsteel.com carries it
Thanks guys. And you are right - I don't have a forge. I picked up a copy of the book "Wayne Goddard's $50 knife shop" and started reading it tonight. With the various posts that people have put up and the book, I should have enough information to cautiously approach heat hardening and tempering. I'll also order some good known quality steel. Recycling materials always feels good (like you are getting something for next to nothing) but can be frustrating. I used to recycle old pallets after carefully checking them for nails. But rocks aren't shown on my tester and I have ruined planer blades and one carbide saw blade. Cost more than if I just bought some rough sawn from the sawmill.
Valkman
Member
I've heat treated about 40 O1 blades now and never had any problems - it's easy! Here's my forge so you can see how easy it is to make one:
You can get everything except the firebricks at Home Depot, and the firebricks (get soft ones) here: http://refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com/
You can get everything except the firebricks at Home Depot, and the firebricks (get soft ones) here: http://refractory.elliscustomknifeworks.com/
A lot of people start off using old leaf springs from cars or files, i have heard of people using lawn-mower blades. You will still need to heat-treat everything, but thats good practice anyways. There is a whole bunch of information on improvised materials in the knifemaker section of bladeforums.
if you are looking for refractory supplies the link valkman gave is a good place. ive heard nothing but good things about darren from dozens of happy customers. i will be placing my first order with him soon for some satanite.
files can make some excellent blades if they are the right files. some files nowadays are just case hardened low carbon steel..just the surface gets hard so after you grind it down it wont hold an edge worth a darn..just another joy of using recycled materials
nice little forge valk...how big of a blade can you work? do you just heat treat with it or do you also forge?
files can make some excellent blades if they are the right files. some files nowadays are just case hardened low carbon steel..just the surface gets hard so after you grind it down it wont hold an edge worth a darn..just another joy of using recycled materials
nice little forge valk...how big of a blade can you work? do you just heat treat with it or do you also forge?
Valkman
Member
I'm having enough problems with my HOA without trying to forge! We're looking to move somewhere where no one can tell me what I can do on my own land and build my own shop. Then I'd like to try forging.
I can only do a 5" blade right now - I want to drill out the back of those bricks and put another one behind it and then I'll have more room.
We're looking to move somewhere where no one can tell me what I can do on my own land and build my own shop. Then I'd like to try forging.I can only do a 5" blade right now - I want to drill out the back of those bricks and put another one behind it and then I'll have more room.
I agree with ecos that 1080 is easy to work if a little more difficult to heat treat than O1 (I gotta say I haven't had any problem with heat treating 1080 though {but then I cheated, Larry Harley and Wes Byrd were my teachers}) 
ecos, and anyone else, if you want to come to Bowie's Hammer In in October you can crash/camp at my place.
ecos, and anyone else, if you want to come to Bowie's Hammer In in October you can crash/camp at my place.
scott.cr
Member
I'll go with the O1 vote. It's delightful to work with when annealed and doesn't make huge nasty sparks when you grind it on a wheel.
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