Advantages of Pump vs. Semi-auto?
- Thread starter Juna
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Phantom Warrior
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Lots of common questions. Here's what I know...
Pistol grip vs. stock
Generally, a pistol grip is more compact, but a full stock gives you better control and accuracy. It's generally agreed a full stock is the way to go. Check out this thread entitled, appropriately enough, Pistol grip vs. stock.
Remingotn 870 vs. Mossberg 500
Chevy or Dodge? Both Remington and Mossberg are quality companies and the 870 and the 500 are their star performers. Either one will serve you well. I personally prefer the 870, but that is strictly personal performance.
Pump vs. semi
Pumps are cheaper and simpler. They are generally recommended over semis for reliability reasons. A semi can have trouble cycling really light loads or what have you. With a pump, you just throw whatever you want into the magazine and cycle the action.
Hope this helps a little bit. I'm sure some more knowledgable people will be along to provide more detailed answers.
Pistol grip vs. stock
Generally, a pistol grip is more compact, but a full stock gives you better control and accuracy. It's generally agreed a full stock is the way to go. Check out this thread entitled, appropriately enough, Pistol grip vs. stock.
Remingotn 870 vs. Mossberg 500
Chevy or Dodge? Both Remington and Mossberg are quality companies and the 870 and the 500 are their star performers. Either one will serve you well. I personally prefer the 870, but that is strictly personal performance.
Pump vs. semi
Pumps are cheaper and simpler. They are generally recommended over semis for reliability reasons. A semi can have trouble cycling really light loads or what have you. With a pump, you just throw whatever you want into the magazine and cycle the action.
Hope this helps a little bit. I'm sure some more knowledgable people will be along to provide more detailed answers.
cosine
Member
Besides Juna's question (which I was considering starting a thread about) I've got one other question: (hope Juna doesn't mind me posting it in this thread)
What gauge do you recommend a beginner start with?
What gauge do you recommend a beginner start with?
mbs357
Member
Another newbie shotgun question...this one answerable yes or no, however: I have a Winchester 1400 (I'm real bad for forgetting model numbers, but it is semi auto and 12 ga). Is it safe to store it with the action open? I figured it'd be best for safety...since a few members of my family might not be too keen on gun safety. ("Oh hey, it's empty." = automatic check.)
TrapperReady
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FWIW, I would recommend 12ga, unless there was some significant contraindication. For example, for young or very small-statured shooters, or if someone has a medical profile which would make recoil minimization a critical factor.
The simple reason is the variety of readily-available ammo. The caveat is that I recommend shooting the lowest recoil stuff you can find until you have the form and gun-fit nailed down.
A splendid opportunity to TEACH your family about gun safety. Alternatively if you are not comfortable teaching them then find an instructor who can. It does no harm to the gun to store it with the action open. But that does very little to encourage safe handling. Hoping for the best is no substitute for KNOWLEDGE. Please -- if you have any doubt about how any member of your family will handle a firearm then make certain that your entire family is properly trained!!
DougW
Member
mbs357, There is no real advantage IMO to storing your auto loader shotgun with the bolt locked back. Someone could grab it wrong and slam a finger in the bolt. If you are concerned about it being unloaded, pull the barrel, hang a trigger lock on it, close the bolt on a popcicle stick or a rag, or lock it in a closet or safe.
I keep 2 auto loader shotguns loaded here at the house. My kids are all grown up and don't live here. Both SG have the tube mags loaded to some extent and the bolt is closed on an empty chamber. They take a physical act to load, and are treated as if they are locked and ready.
I keep 2 auto loader shotguns loaded here at the house. My kids are all grown up and don't live here. Both SG have the tube mags loaded to some extent and the bolt is closed on an empty chamber. They take a physical act to load, and are treated as if they are locked and ready.
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mbs357
Member
The only person I expect to be doing this is an uncle of mine who seems to think that finger on the trigger is ok because it's unloaded, and that there's no need to check it because he knows it's not loaded.
Believe me, I've tried to teach him otherwise, but for some reason the people in my family like to treat me like I know nothing.
I didn't think that keeping the action back would cause damage, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunatly, my dad is a firm believer that this causes problems...he's told me a few times "you should put that forward and pull the trigger to relieve tension!" Unfortunatly, I have to treat all of his guns like this...every time I handle them I have to dry fire them before storing them...I cringe every time. =(
Believe me, I've tried to teach him otherwise, but for some reason the people in my family like to treat me like I know nothing.
I didn't think that keeping the action back would cause damage, thanks for the feedback. Unfortunatly, my dad is a firm believer that this causes problems...he's told me a few times "you should put that forward and pull the trigger to relieve tension!" Unfortunatly, I have to treat all of his guns like this...every time I handle them I have to dry fire them before storing them...I cringe every time. =(
mbs357
Member
Understood. I've explained that to him, but no effect.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Guys, the search feature is your friend.
If you hit the search button, click on advanced search, put my name in as author and 101 as the subject, you get a load of threads that comprise Shotgun 101, a book in progress.
Practically all this thread has been addressed at length there.
HTH.....
If you hit the search button, click on advanced search, put my name in as author and 101 as the subject, you get a load of threads that comprise Shotgun 101, a book in progress.
Practically all this thread has been addressed at length there.
HTH.....
mbs357
Member
Whoops.
Threads like these are like the newbie grounds in MMOs...
Without them, the newbs wouldn't have anywhere to practice and would get completely stomped when they tried to hang out with the more experienced players.
...but I guess that's no excuse.
Threads like these are like the newbie grounds in MMOs...
Without them, the newbs wouldn't have anywhere to practice and would get completely stomped when they tried to hang out with the more experienced players.
...but I guess that's no excuse.
cosine
Member
Dave McCracken said:
Thanks for that bit of advice! I didn't know that there were all those "101" threads... pretty much everything I wanted advice for looks like is in those threads. Gotta settle down and read through them all now.
BIGGEST ADVANTAGE of Pumps-----
Less Lethal Rounds. Damn, they are a blast!!!!
Breach Rounds
Pepper Spray
Plastic Buck SHot
Bean Bag (or sand bag actaully)
Flame Thrower (not much less lethal, but crispier results)
Flachette (soup-like results)
All of which are suitable for goblins.
I'd like to see a semi-auto take one of those flame throwers during its breath of fire.
Pumps are the original and still the best. get yourself a 590.
Less Lethal Rounds. Damn, they are a blast!!!!
Breach Rounds
Pepper Spray
Plastic Buck SHot
Bean Bag (or sand bag actaully)
Flame Thrower (not much less lethal, but crispier results)
Flachette (soup-like results)
All of which are suitable for goblins.
I'd like to see a semi-auto take one of those flame throwers during its breath of fire.
Pumps are the original and still the best. get yourself a 590.
gudel
Member
where can you get this bean bag loads? i've only seen slugs or buckshots on online ammo shops.
Don't bother with beanbag loads. They're still considered Deadly force if you shoot someone with them. If you use them when you can't use deadly force you're going to be in a great deal of trouble. If you're in a situation where deadly force is warranted, why go with a half measure?
Pumps: Pros- less inclined to malfunction, simpler, less expensive, can shoot all loads (tear gas, buckshot, bird shot, etc.)
Cons- slower shots than w/semi, heavier recoil
Semi: Pros- can shoot fast, less recoil, can stay on target easier because the change of losing the target because of pumping is not there, more stable (some pumps have forends that wobble)
Cons- Expensive, may not fire all loads efficiently and reliably
Cons- slower shots than w/semi, heavier recoil
Semi: Pros- can shoot fast, less recoil, can stay on target easier because the change of losing the target because of pumping is not there, more stable (some pumps have forends that wobble)
Cons- Expensive, may not fire all loads efficiently and reliably
A pump isn't that much slower than a semi, and with practice, you can maintain cheek weld keeping your eye on target as you cycle the action (someone could put me on a clock, but I'd guess ~0.1 seconds to cycle). Skeet doubles can be done by a shooter with just a little bit of practice and that involves cycling the action while you are moving the gun to the second clay. You need to move the shotgun the same with a semi, the only added movement is cycling the action and that becomes a reflex.
YMMV, but IME the semi doesn't offer enough advantage over a pump to make up for the price and the reliability issues.
Clipper
Member
Besides...I can't imagine any sight as satisfying as that on a BGs face as he hears that slide cycle. That sound is universally understood, no interpreter necessary and I'll bet it's taken the starch out of more BGs than buckshot has...
DougW
Member
I am not sure where all the comments on the "unreliability" of an auto loader come from. I have had both a Remington 870P and an 1100 fail during 2 different 3 gun matches. My Benelli and and the 1100 with the new trigger group work on light #8 field loads all the way up to "your choice" of slug or 00 buck. I sold the 870 to get the Benelli because I have wanted one for years. I am not compromised by owning auto loaders. I even own auto loading hand guns and rifles. But, I also own revolvers. I guess it boils down to what you like as an individual, and if you have your weapon and yourself prepared for whatever situation you think you may encounter.
If I had to choose an unknown to me pump or an autoloader from someone's cabinet and head out into the bush for 3 days without testing the weapon, I would choose the pump. That does not mean that I would not miss one of my autoloaders.
If I had to choose an unknown to me pump or an autoloader from someone's cabinet and head out into the bush for 3 days without testing the weapon, I would choose the pump. That does not mean that I would not miss one of my autoloaders.
Gary G23
Member
Price
Reliability
Reduced Maintenance (pumps only have to be cleaned every other February 29th)
Reliability
Reduced Maintenance (pumps only have to be cleaned every other February 29th)
Hokkmike
Member
If you would decide to use your shot gun for deer in Pennsylvania, the semi would be illegal whereas the pump is OK. I think the pump can, with practice, be perceptively as fast, they are easier to take care of, and certainly cheaper. All that being said my vote goes to the over and under!
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